cross-posted from: https://lemmit.online/post/2916897
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The original was posted on /r/science by /u/mvea on 2024-05-15 10:17:06+00:00.
The FBI did a study and most serial killers don’t have an inner monologue… You can add that to the TIL.
I’m one of the 5-10%. I always sucked at verbal memory tasks. Didn’t know some people have an real, interpretable internal monologue until a few years ago. I thought thinking nonverbally was the default. I even specifically remember watching shows and movies where you listen to a character’s internal internal monologue and thinking “this is dumb, that’s not how thinking works”. Turns out it is, and I’m just in the minority! Now I make an effort to manually start an internal monologue when I’m doing anything that requires a lot of verbal processing, like listening to instructions at work. It helps, but I can still tell that I have a deficit compared to most people when it comes to those things.
Your anecdote seems to support that it’s a learned behavior/skill, which tracks for me. I have a very active internal dialogue that’s difficult to turn off. I say dialogue instead of monologue because I often make up “other voices” that bounce ideas off each other, and this generally happens without my conscious effort. I think I developed this because as I was growing up I was encouraged to pray regularly, and I was very fanatically religious as a kid so I did so as often as I could. I prayed silently so often in fact that my thoughts were basically a constant one-sided monologue directed to god. Whenever I would daydream or let my imagination wander I would imagine god responding, and eventually the constant monologue became a dialogue. I would work out problems or make decisions by having conversations with an imaginary god. When I stopped believing in god the second voice never went away, I just started recognizing it as my own.
Okay, now I have to know if religious individuals are more likely to have an inner voice. That just makes sense!!!
You get to think in ways that other people can’t. You actually have a super power. Don’t sleep on that! You rock
TIL. I’m one of the 5-10% as well!! I have not noticed a deficit in verbal memory… I’m more interested reading the comments and learning today that people have inner voices?!?
Basically if I know you well I hear your voice in my head argue for a pov I know you hold. If you are say a safety-first kinda guy I will hear you lecture me when I am not being safe. I got a committee arguing all the time and I admit it sometimes becomes hard to remember if I mentioned X to my mental version of someone or the real someone.
Yes I am aware that the voices I hear are not real. It is just the way my brain is presenting information to itself. Like writing down notes in different colored inks. It is all the same letters and words but with an added change.
It’s a two-edged sword. Sometimes it can be really mean to you :(
My inner monologue is an asshole that literally never shuts up unless I’m asleep. If I’m not actively thinking about something and conversing with him or keeping him otherwise distracted, he’s singing a snippet of the last catchy song he heard, over and over, until a new one takes its place. Sometimes it’s the same song for days on end.
That’s awesome. Mine just criticizes me over and over and over and over and over again. I’m working on our relationship.
When i need to think something through to myself i often start a recording app on my phone and literally talk it out. It helps narrow down the swirling and distracting thoughts, even if i never go back to the recording later. Is that adhd or a failing inner voice?
I never really understand what people are taking about when they say they have an inner monologue or don’t. Sometimes i think in words, sometimes i think in swirls and images, sometimes i don’t think…
I think if you think in words you have one. I also think in different modalities, not exclusively in words.
I’ve seen this conversation come up so many times and I’m never not fascinated by it. I have a nonstop internal monologue, it can be exhausting really. But I can’t fully wrap my head around thinking without it
I have ADHD, it’s like having talk radio permanently on in my head. Often times I’ll have an internal monologue playing on top of internal background music.
I have ADHD too but in my case I don’t actually “hear” any of the thoughts. But they exist similar to how you describe. At any given time I can feel multiple different thoughts kind of floating around. When music gets stuck in my head I don’t so much hear it in there as I feel the presence of a song. So I have to talk out loud in order to keep from losing the thread of what I was thinking about.
I’m the same way, if I don’t talk out loud or write my ideas down I can’t think straight. Without an inner monologue my thoughts just feel like a jumbled abstract soup I have to manually untangle by speaking. I also get songs stuck in my head, but I’ve always explained it as feeling a particular part of the rhythm, or almost feeling the lyrics in my mouth like I’m speaking them.
It’s fascinating to me, too.
I have seen everything by now: People who think that only sociopaths have an inner monologue. People who think an inner monologue would be useful, but can’t quite lean in on the concept. People who are confused that some people don’t have an inner monologue. People getting angry at me for even “questioning” the inner monologue, as if it was holy.
It’s an interesting exercise in trying to understand the experience of others while removing our own biases. Doesn’t always go so well I guess! So how do you think?? I really can’t tell from your comment
The brain structures develop to help us navigate through the environment. So of course, at times where an inner monologue is helpful, we will probably have one.
Me too. People like you are fascinating to me. When I first found out that everyone thinks differently I went around interrogating everyone I knew about how they think.
I don’t have an interior monologue unless Im typing, but I sometimes use my internal “sound system” to play music.
That’s really fascinating and similar to how I think, I think. Like, typing, reading, or thinking about things that are by nature verbal get internally verbalized but in an atonal “narrator voice”, though it’s still not “quiet” otherwise. I also have what I call my “internal walkman” for playing music in a recording/playback manner (sometimes with some “skips”), rather than any voice of my own.
Me too!! I had my nephew and his wife arguing at dinner about whether the inner voice was real or god. 🤣
i dont have one at all, i think, i don’t even have one when typing, which i think leads to a lot of weird mistakes, sometimes i’ll just interject a completely random word, or pickup halfway through a sentence with a completely different sentence, it’s weird sometimes.
I can see that could have that effect! I pretty much need it for typing, it’s like an act of translation. I have to write a lot for work or I probably wouldn’t have started doing it that way.
If someone is talking or the radio is on when I type I will accidentally include some of the words from those sources.
usually im pretty good with typing, ironically. The problem is that if i start to multi focus on things, it gets really messy, just having music in the background isn’t enough to cause me problems though, neither having youtube videos, though it’s impossible for me to focus enough on the video to understand whats happening, while being able to type legibly.
if i’m rapidly jumping between things, like reading something, and talking to people on discord, while listening to music, i can absolutely throw random words in places they shouldnt be, it’s weird.
My mental radio is rarely off, but I don’t have an internal monologue.
I too have an internal monologue. I was high on mushrooms and I thought to myself “What would it be like not have an inner monologue?” Then I had an existential crisis on top of an already emotional workout trip.
Can you ‘replay’ music in your head?
This is a really interesting question. If I were a researcher, I’d try to go chase this topic, since it seems to be fairly quantifiable.
Like Mudskipper, I can replay music in my head but it has a few caveats: I don’t really process the instruments… I remember the pitch/volume/etc but primarily of vocals. I also replay with the original singer’s voice and not my own. Replaying a few songs in my head now and I can’t even focus on the instruments if there were vocals unless they are critical to how the song works, like a bass drop. If I try to replay music that is instrumental, I get verbal recreations, like someone performing the song acapella. If i focus hard, I can hear instruments instead, but that requires thinking about it. This matches how I ‘sing along’ with instrumental pieces in otherwise verbal songs. It might just be that the backing music isn’t retained, so I can remember the melody, but not, say, a bass line unless the bass is being highlighted.
Are there people who CAN’T replay music in their heads? Are they immune to ‘ear-worms’ or do they just perceive it differently?
Yes…but it has my voice singing on top of the song’s original singer
What happens to your monologue when you’re not thinking about it though?
When your senses provide information about tastes or sounds, isn’t that a kind of thinking without the monologue?
You’re able to turn yours off??
I’ve battled insomnia for my whole life and not being able to shut off the monologue is the main reason
keep your eyes open in the dark; do all the things that trigger your master and tissue specific circadian rhythm like cooler temp, no food before bed, no blue light for hours before bed; blah blah blah
For me, my inner voice is muted when I am focused on something, like working on a task or playing a video game.
The second I stop focusing, the inner voice starts.
If I do nothing, it’s usually a song that is stuck in my head.
As for other senses, for me, it is the same as focusing on a task. When my senses are activated, the inner voice stops.
If I am reading something and I know thr voice of the person that wrote that, I automatically read in their voice and it is extremely hard to read in my voice.
Does you inner monologue have a voice? Mine is just… Voiceless? Like, pure translation. I never think in “My Voice”.
My inner monologue has my voice, like I hear myself talk.
Same, sometimes I even move my mouth when I talk to myself if I am too engaged in my internal dialogue. Freaks my wife out sometimes.
I think that’s pretty normal to some extent, I remember reading that you can kinda see people’s inner monologue on a head MRI based on tiny movements of speech organs. Take this with a massive grain of salt, no idea where I read that and too lazy to find it right now lol.
Personally I definitely notice every now and then that when I activate my inner voice I also slightly move my tongue etc. as if I was saying what it says.
I can do both, ask me anything.
Why, can’t you ask yourself? 😁
Can your inner voice be quiet? I’m trying to have a conversation with mine!
I SAID YOUR INNER DISHWASHER MAKES A LOT OF NOISE!!!
I can change what my inner monologue sounds like. It can go from Morgan Freeman to Pete Holmes’ Batman trying to figure out his voice.
The worst is when you start to have conversations in your head in multiple voices. It gets crowded sometimes.
You should get a dog
And add to the voices? Nuh uh.
Ooh, I don’t really do that. I just tried it and it kind of works, but I think I’m much better with impressions in my real voice. I’d have to practice more.
TIL some people have an inner voice. What is for you folks, like imaginary sounds?
My inner voice is my voice as I hear it, and is more obviously there when I’m contemplative or reflective on ideas and concepts, but it doesn’t seem to actively dictate or narrate most of my actions as I go through the day, except perhaps in anxiety or adrenaline peaking situations. It does seem more likely to flip to the forefront when there’s an ‘emergency’ sort of moment to help stay calm and rational where others may panic. I do have some ‘imagery’ thoughts but only when I’m on more of an autopilot with an activity.
Interestingly, I can have very vivid and detailed dreams filled with unique imagery and events that can seem very real and my inner voice kicks on sometimes during dreams, and I recognize it as a dream. I have at times been able to influence the direction of a dream that my subconscious usually seems to be running. These dreams can be expansive, I’m talking deep backstory, knowing things and languages I do not know, knowing details about history or science or math that I do not know, and having a strange hyper awareness of existence around me that I do not have when awake. The only really ‘scary’ dreams I’ve had since I was a kid are ones where I can’t find my kids, or where my dad is still alive and shows back up at home like he was just living somewhere else for a while (and it’s not so much scary as just hyper-confusing and stressful). The dad dreams are also some of the best dreams to have that inner voice of awareness happen.
Do you remember the last time you were talking to someone for more than a couple minutes? Maybe they were explaining something to you, or telling you a story. You might try to remember what they said later - you can’t hear it, but your brain kind of recreates the sensation of having been spoken to even though your ears aren’t receiving those sounds.
That’s what having an inner voice is like (to me, anyway) - it’s remembering a conversation that you never actually had.
An asshole mostly, but that’s another issue. Helps you think through problems because you think about it before doing it. When I read fiction I try to imagine other voices. I read a lot when I was younger.
It’s just a voice inside your head that says what you’re thinking. Like when I’m typing this out it says the words as I type them or as I think ahead as to what to type.
What does it do when you’re not actively thinking about text or conversation. Is it still verbal then?
Yeah it’s constantly saying shit, a lot of the time its negative and I can’t get it to shut the fuck up.
Mines pretty positive. I tell myself how awesome I am a lot when I accomplish something. But I am pretty full of myself. Usually when it’s being snarky it’s about annoying situations or people.
Huh interesting
There are times that it is quiet. If I’m thinking about music or something visual then my inner voice isn’t saying much. If I’m watching tv or listening to something it’s quiet, unless I think of something I have to do, like “fuck I’ve gotta send that email”. It’s generally pretty quiet if I’m doing something like drawing, but I may make little comments to myself in my head like “oh I need some more stuff over here” or something like that. If I meditate, I can keep it mostly quiet.
I always thought only mentally ill people (schizophrenic) have inner voice(s) that is until I learned everyone else has so it’s me that I am not normal lol
I feel like it makes grammar harder tbh. I have to edit shit again and again if I want it to look good for you nerds.
My understanding is that among other issues schizophrenics view their internal monologue as not being their own thoughts, but rather an external voice. Take that with a grain of salt though, because it’s just something I vaguely remember reading on the Internet at some point.
When I read stuff, my inner dialog reads it back to me, you don’t get that? Like in the movies when a someone is writing or reading a letter.
When I read stuff, my inner dialog reads it back to me, you don’t get that? Like in the movies when a someone is writing or reading a letter.
So, it’s like you’re reading twice? Like you’re perceiving it with your eyes/occipital line and then your inner dialog verbalizes it for you? Or all in one shot?
All in oneshots - as I read or write, I hear it in my voice while doing it.
I see images when I read ,like in movies’ I see a theatre, someone reading a letter I see old man reading a letter on a xix century chair with a gray beard and cigarette and focused gaze, jumping from image to image like this and more unspecified ‚ideas’. When I solve a problem I usually use those kind of mind lego bricks to build something in mind and test it. It’s all imagination based.
I guess I may like books more than average person. I feel like if reading was accompanied by inner monologue it would be slower instead of just direct words to images so to say but at the same time I often lose details when reading or don’t remember them at all considering the action feels like a movie in the head
I have to read professional books or physics slightly different and often twice same thing but I guess that’s normal when the topic is more complex that it’s hard to form an image connected to the equations and get all these things in head properly connected to form understanding which for me means building some imaginary concept of it from the mind Lego bricks that is logical and won’t collapse. No idea if it is typical way of things or not.
I would guess it’s normal for your imagination to draw what you read, but I guess people have different levels of imagination. I myself don’t imagination stuff clearly, more of a haze. People who are naturally good at drawing, I would guess have strong imagination, where they can picture what they’re drawing in clear details.
Sounds peaceful. Mine goes like mad sometimes, it’s even woken me from sleep.
How does this work? Like you sometimes can’t control your inner voice, it just says things to you on its own accord?
For me it’s like there’s another me inside my head who just talks at random. I can usually control it, or maybe it controls me, or maybe it is me, or just a part of me. I think a lot of who I am as a person consists of the words bouncing around in my head and my relationship with them at any given time.
I have both an inner voice and strong imagery. I cannot imagine any other way. I assume that people on the opposite end would see my mind as massive chaos though.
maybe my brains broken but when I read stuff my “inner voice” is what I hear in my head. so do you guys not do that too? do the people without inner voices not hear anything when they read stuff?
You can read without using your inner voice if you practice. It supposedly lets you read a lot faster, though I have my doubts about how well you retain the information. One way to do it is to think “lalalala” while reading something!
I have a non-verbal inner voice which gives meta-commentary on my verbal inner voice. If I want to think about what I’m thinking, that’s what is going on.
i still don’t understand what the fuck an internal monologue is supposed to be.
I’ve heard it’s the thing that makes you do things, i’ve heard it’s a thing that just exists.
I don’t know what it is, what it does, or what it seems to be for, and i don’t even know whether i have one.
Science is a bitch sometimes.
Its like being on the phone with yourself. Everything you read is spoken to you. When you see an accident about to hsppen, you hear ‘That guy is about to eat it.’ When you see an attractive person you hear ‘Niiiiccceee!’.
Wow, sounds like absolute madness
huh, yeah for most of that stuff i just think outloud. It’s the natural reaction for me.
for me, sometimes my internal monologue is like a very lazy audio book narrator who only reads the dialogue, and sometimes not even that. other times its like i have the whole cast of a radio drama in there, in the middle of the apex of the plot.
bruh, u got the whole main character arc going on up there.
It’s basically just you talking to yourself but without actually speaking.
if that’s how it’s defined than i think i have some sort of weird hybrid of it. I have an internal monologue for certain things, like if im working on a project and need a design for it, that’ll cause me problems. But if i’m just sitting down and thinking about something, i’m usually talking it out. For example i’ve been into sociology a bit recently, and i’ve found myself talking out loud about things very frequently.
weird.
What about like reading comments, do you inner monologue the comment?
kind of? I sort of follow along with what i’m typing but it’s less of a written dialogue thing, and more of a phonetic rendition of it, if that makes sense.
It follows the pace of my brain absorbing the words, as well as writing them out, which can make reading a chore sometimes. When i’m reading a book, i’m often absorbed enough to be able to engage with it pretty tightly, and i can usually follow along a lot better, with a stronger inner monologue, it’s weird.
Like typing this post out right now inside of my head sounds more like trying to speak the words per syllable as you write them down on a piece of paper, as opposed to reciting them, if that makes any sense.
It’s my own voice in my head. Its difficult to determine on what level I control it. It doesn’t “make” me do things, but it’s not like I decide what it says before it speaks. I often wonder if it’s the other half of my brain. I speak differently in person than I do inside my head, or type, for that matter.
Regardless whether it’s a kind of supplemental personality inside my head, one thing I’m convinced of is that many people mistake their internal monologue for the Voice of God.
huh, that’s weird, mine i have full control over. It’s thoughts are quite literally my thoughts. And my thoughts are it’s thoughts as well.
maybe i’ve developed an artificial internal monologue?
Oh, it’s certainly my thoughts. I’m just saying I don’t decide what to think before I think, you know? And I think in that voice, so I really can’t identify anything prior. It’s just me in here, but it’s a funny way to think about consciousness.
yeah, in a way it’s impossible to think about what you think, as you think about it, that’s how train of thought works. The only time you ever have a whole spiel ready is if you’ve been practicing it regularly, and then it’s no longer train of thought anymore.
I think if you’d have one, you’d know. There’s zero confusion on my part whether it’s there. It’s definitely there talking to me any time I’m thinking of words.
i think the problem that i have, is that i have one, but only for certain activities, i don’t seem to have one for thought/verbal tasks. But when im working on something i’m designing i often have one present most of the time.
for me it’s literally just my own voice (and i can mimic other voices) and i sort of hear it overlaid on everything else, sorta like what happens when you hold a hand in front of only one eye, you see both things at once.
The only real difference from my physical voice is that there’s none of that delay and friction from having to physically speak, so it’s harder to prevent my inner monologue from saying stuff which is extremely annoying since i’m autistic and thus have echolalia, meaning i just reflexively repeat things i hear…
The idea that other people have some sort of independent inner voice, or even several ones, is rather terrifying to me.
weird, i guess i’m lucky that mine is relatively situational then, because otherwise it’d be constantly blabbering lol.
The guy in my head is my best friend and the biggest asshole ever.
I’m convinced that a great part of the people that claim to not have an inner voice are either:
- lying to come off as interesting
- unaware of their inner voice
- not understanding what ‘inner voice’ means. It’s not exactly like someone is talking to you, right? But it does come close.
