• Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      The end of the day I won’t blame the young people, though. I will blame the red hat fascists who want to install an orange dictator.

      Edit: Young people get a pass because at least they are passionate about something. I’m over here, dead inside, praying to a computer that things don’t get any worse then they already are.

        • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          The people who are to blame are the Republicans. That is where you need to direct your anger.

          • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            I’m not angry. I regret voting third-party in an election that barely elected Bush, a year before 9/11, that he used to justify a two front war resulting in nearly one million deaths. I’m encouraging others to learn from my mistake.

        • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          8 months ago

          If you like Bernie so much maybe listen to him?

          “We can be extremely upset at the Biden administration for their policies with regard to Israel and Gaza, but the difficulty is that in the real world that you live in, you’ve got to take a look at a whole lot of things,” he said, sitting in the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee hearing room on Capitol Hill. “On the other hand, I would hope that most of the young people and protestors do not want to see Donald Trump, who is a racist, a sexist, a homophobe who doesn’t acknowledge the reality of climate change, become elected president of the United States.”

          • crusa187@lemmy.ml
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            8 months ago

            Yeah, Bernie always carries water for the DNC, and it’s always to the detriment of progressive American politics.

            …got to take a look at a lot of things

            Record oil and gas drilling, multi-time failure to codify Roe, redlining, gave away the public option, Manchin’s removed, Bibi’s removed, tricked Warren to betray Bernie for nothing, fascist crackdown on peacefully protesting college kids, ancient dinosaur who’s out of touch. I could go on.

            There are other options aside from red and blue, and as a swing state voter, I’ll be taking them. The establishment Dems would have you be angry with me and those like me, but this is a misdirection and also just another of Biden’s failings - no ability to take responsibility for his own reprehensible actions.

            • daltotron@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              There are other options aside from red and blue, and as a swing state voter, I’ll be taking them.

              me when I decide to waste my vote as a swing state voter, instead of meaningfully pulling my support for a candidate that’s ultimately going to get elected anyways out of protest as a non-swing state voter:

  • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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    8 months ago

    Personally, i’m worried that the biden administration is underestimating the electoral importance of his decision to continue supporting Israel’s genocide against Palestinians.

  • penquin@lemm.ee
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    8 months ago

    I fucking hate, and from the bottom of my heart, how Biden is funding the genocide in Palestine, but I’m still going to vote for him this time, because we just can’t have a person like Trump in the white house, period. I still can’t figure out how he got in the first time. I’d never let my 10 year old lead a country, yet we let Trump do it for four fucking years. I, too, am sick of this “the lesser of two evils” bullshit, but this time I’m giving it a pass because of Trump. We already have a crumbling country and can’t afford another four years of this dude.

    • Xhieron@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      I think Joe Biden is maybe the best president of my lifetime, and I’m going to vote for him with my head held high even though I live in a red state where it doesn’t matter at all. I wish things were simpler in the Levant, but I appreciate that Joe Biden is between a rock and a hard place with Israel. It’s not like he can just take Bibi out. He’s not Boeing. That said, even if I laid the entire genocide at Biden’s feet (which, while he’s not blameless, is absolutely not appropriate), he would still be head and shoulders an improvement over Donald Trump.

      For that matter, I’d absolutely let my 12 year old run this country before I’d let Trump have a second term. My kid is brilliant, and more importantly, unlike Trump he listens to advice, can take no for an answer, and gives a shit about having a functional democracy four years from now.

      A second Trump term is an existential threat to the nation. Hold your nose, hold your neighbor’s nose if you have to, but every able-bodied patriot owes it to their descendants and their patriotic ancestors to prevent a second Trump term.

    • Ferrous@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      8 months ago

      “I still can’t figure out how he got in the first time”

      Easy. He was propped up by democrats, namely Hillary Clinton.

      If we reach a point 40 years from now when your choice is between a dem supporting 5 genocides and a republican supporting 10 genocides, are you still going to be militantly democrat and lash out at leftists who are sick of the whole thing?

      • jkrtn@lemmy.ml
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        8 months ago

        In this hypothetical we wouldn’t have the option to vote 40 years from now because dim bulbs allowed an insurrectionist to be elected. Donald will also accelerate climate fuckery so anyway we’ll be too busy squabbling over what meager food comes out of the remaining arable regions.

        • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Purely hypothetical question for you: Would you rather continue supporting Israel or see Biden win the 2024 election?

          • jkrtn@lemmy.ml
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            8 months ago

            Enjoy the extra genocide Donald “Muslim ban” Trump brings to the conflict and starts up locally. You guys really want him to “finish the job,” huh?

            That’s pretty repugnant IMO, but people like you are privileged enough to watch from afar as others lose their rights and their lives.

            • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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              8 months ago

              By not answering the question and participating in the process of this hypothetical choice the outcome is Israel is supported and Joe Biden loses the 2024 election.

      • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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        8 months ago

        You think you will still be able to vote in 40 years if Donald “dictator for a day” Trump gets elected this time?

        Oh my sweet summer child. Your vote will be as meaningful as the ones in Russia.

        • Ferrous@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          8 months ago

          So if a Trump presidency means the end of democracy in America, why hasn’t Trump been outlawed?

          Why is Biden focusing on banning TikTok instead of truth social? Why weren’t the courts getting stacked 2 years ago? Why are the democrats’ obsession with “precedent” and “civility” taking more primacy than outlawing a candidate who, by their own admission, would mean the end of democracy?

          By propping up Trump, the democrats have effortlessly oriented you such that you now give blind support to a genocidal regime. You’ve given the democrats a blank check. The democrats would rather lose to Trump and usher in fascism than shift left in the slightest way (halting genocide).

          Also, epic reddit catchphrase my good sir. I tip my hat you, for you are a gentleman and a scholar.

    • Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
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      8 months ago

      Well, there is a very simple solution to this. The Democrats could actually be a progressive party that recognizes and protects human rights, international law, and basic humanity of its American people.

      But they don’t. They continue to aid a genocide. They continue to obstruct justice on an international level. They continue the racist policies of Trumps like interment camps at the southern borders and building “the wall”. They continue to protect the interest of rich elites against the American people like denying universal healthcare and basic social security for all.

      The Democrats would rather have Trump win, than have the US not be a violent rogue nation internationally and a far-right economics hellhole internally.

      Now they decided to crack down on free speech together with the Republicans, instead of taking the young peoples protests seriously. They are fine with Trump. For them Trump is better than universal healthcare or upholding international laws, like not committing mass murder.

      • Dinsmore@sh.itjust.works
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        8 months ago

        In addition, Democrats do everything possible to make sure nobody left of center wins the Democratic nomination: when there was a real challenge to the corporate Democrats (Bernie in 2016 and 2020), they did everything they could to rig the primary process in order to keep out any leftward movement. Similarly for 2024, instead of holding debates to convince Democrats that Joe Biden was still up to the task, they held no debates and even canceled the primaries in several states. In 2020, polling showed that Bernie would have a much more comfortable path to victory than Biden, but Democrats were more comfortable with Trump than Bernie.

  • nutsack@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    there is an understandable wave of nihilism manifesting in the younger generations that will probably persist for as long as they live. i don’t imagine the united states will stop producing nihilists for a long time as the circumstances are not projected to change

  • epigone@awful.systems
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    8 months ago

    as a black person i’m worried that donald trump’s batting average isn’t showing the potential it should be this season. he should spend more time in the cages.

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    They don’t understand that Trump is just as pro-Israel as Biden, if not even more so considering he moved the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Congress is bipartisan pro-Israel. This isn’t even a presidential issue.

      Biden just happens to be the guy doing the pro-Israel stuff at the moment, so he’s eating the lions share of the public ire.

      “You have to support the Pro-Israel guy because the other guy is pro-Israel and both party leaders are pro-Israel and the cops are trained by Israelis and Israeli businesses have strong ties with the MIC and Big Finance needs Israel to control trade through the Suez and you’re outnumbered and outgunned so quit fighting, just vote for Joe Biden” just isn’t a winning message among progressive voters this year.

      Maybe try it again in 2026.

      • gears@sh.itjust.works
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        8 months ago

        My company buys a specific board from an Israeli company.

        We have been working on an in house alternative for a few years now. Now we’re scared to actually perform the switch because of the anti-boycott laws

      • firadin@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        The thing is: Biden is pro-Israel but also pro-Palestinians. He’s providing aid to Gazans and pressuring Israel to minimize civilian casualties. It’s not great, or even good, I agree - but it’s a whole lot better than Trump who would be pro-Israel and anti-Palestinians. You’d see humanitarian aid end and the US support total war instead of the (slightly) restrained version we’re seeing now.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Biden is pro-Israel but also pro-Palestinians.

          Biden’s Increasingly Contradictory Israel Policy: A former State Department official explains the Administration’s sharpening public critique of Israel’s war and simultaneous refusal to “impose a single cost or consequence.”

          Right now it seems like the Biden Administration is trying to pressure Israel not to launch a military assault on Rafah and to allow in more humanitarian aid. At the same time, it has shown an unwillingness to take strong steps to punish Israel or to restrict the flow of aid or weapons to Israel if the Israelis disregard that pressure. How do you understand the strategy now?

          I’d call the Biden Administration’s approach “passive-aggressive.” They are angry at Netanyahu, and were even before this. He’s presiding over the most extreme government in the history of the state of Israel. That government and the preceding dozen years of Netanyahu’s tenure are undermining the two fundamental drivers of the U.S.-Israeli relationship, which are shared values and common interests. So, it’s passive-aggressive in the sense that, six months into the war, the Administration has still been unwilling—unable—to impose a single cost or consequence that you and I, as normal human beings, would describe as real pressure.

          Unable or unwilling?

          Both, but I’ll get to that in a second. There were three levers the Administration could’ve pulled. They’re still available. No. 1 is to end U.S. military assistance. There’s no indication the Administration’s anywhere close to that. It just approved a shipment of two-thousand-pound bombs, and twenty F-35s. No. 2, change the U.S. voting posture at the U.N., either by introducing its own Security Council resolution, or by voting for someone else’s, that is very critical of Israel. It has not done that. No. 3, abandon the whole notion of negotiating the hostage release and simply join the chorus of those in the international community who basically say, “You need to pressure Israel to cease this military campaign.”

          And I think it has not done these things

          Biden is pro-Getting Relected. And he recognizes that his party is increasingly pro-Palestinian. However, his current policy appears to be a CYA strategy, intended to create the illusion of neutrality while negotiating a path that allows Israel to continue its extermination of Arab people across the region.

          As this exterminationist Israeli agenda becomes more undeniable, the job of appearing neutral grows more difficult. And Biden’s decision to (tacitly) back Israel at all costs means risking friendly relations with Turkyie, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. However, he’s staying the course, precisely because he’s banking on a mass expulsion and genocide of Palestinians today will strengthen Israel’s regional position in the future.

    • samus12345@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      The GOP openly courts antisemites while also supporting Israel. They make sure to have all the awful bases covered.

    • LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net
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      8 months ago

      He absolutely is more so. Also, young people have more power to influence Biden because they are part of his coalition. Of course, using this power is tricky because you need to pressure and criticize Biden without actually making him lose. So far I support the pressure campaign but I hope as the election gets closer people will start to realize what an epic disaster Trump term two would be.

      • Krono@lemmy.today
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        8 months ago

        Are young people really a part of Bidens coalition? Bidens policies and rhetoric have consistantly pushed young people away. The ridiculous speech he gave just a few minutes ago maligning student protestors is emblematic of this.

        And it seems like young people have got the message. The last poll I saw had 18-24yr olds voting for Trump at +8%

        • makyo@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          Young people are part of the coalition but they’ve never proven to be a reliable part. When the 18-25s vote like the older generations then campaigns will start to take their needs more seriously.

            • BakerBagel@midwest.social
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              8 months ago

              It’s a two way street. Young progressives don’t see any reason to vote for Democrats who won’t fight for any of the policies they care about, so they wont defend or fight for those officials.

              If i am thirsty and someone is offering me toilet water after they just shit in the toilet, I don’t need to show gratitude to the next person who comes by offering water from their toilet after they pissed in it.

              • makyo@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                Your analogy is completely absurd though, it’s more like voting for cake and getting bread - and then being so pissed off about the bread that you let bread guy get voted out in favor of toilet guy.

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                  8 months ago

                  Hold it!

                  Let me make sure I’ve got that right. In this analogy, a candidate supporting genocide is a perfectly fine option, and people who have a problem with him are comparable to picky eaters?

      • Ferrous@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        8 months ago

        “because you need to pressure and criticize Biden without actually making him lose”

        “We need to be toothless about our criticism of Biden” FTFY

        The threat of making your candidate lose is the only power you have to shift them.

        Next time you’re negotiating for a car, see how much the seller budges after you preceed negotiations with “Now, I am fully committed and happy paying sticker price, but how much can you lower the price?”

        Edit: at least have the intellectual honesty to say out loud that Biden could do anything, and you’d still vote for him

    • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
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      8 months ago

      And once again, as the foreign trolls that are busy courting our youth want, not one comment in this entire thread mentions that Europe is on the brink of open modernized war should Ukraine fall to vlad “Ukraine is just a stepping stone” putin.

      Gaza is a genocide, but that is not the critical geopolitical stage to be paying the most attention to. Once again it is completely ignored that the heads of hamas who attacked israel on oct 7 knowing exactly what they were about to cause are friends of putin.

      The Gaza genocide was provoked precisely to pull western eyes from the Ukrainian front where russia was more than underperforming to ensure their victory in a sustained war of attrition.

      You want to avoid a world war? You vote for biden whether u do it proudly or do it holding ur nose the way most of the sane will.

      • SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
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        8 months ago

        If what you say is correct, then it would seem that the onus is on Israel to stop the genocide in order to save its European benefactors.

        • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
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          8 months ago

          The onus to sane action is on everyone. Israel is in the wrong no matter which way u cut the pie. It does not mean that ignoring whats happening north of israel is validated bc the apartheid state is acting the way it always has.

      • r_se_random@sh.itjust.works
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        8 months ago

        The Gaza genocide did not start on Oct 7, much like the Russian incursion on Unkraine did not start in Jan 2022. Both of those are tremendous blights on human rights and should be equally condemned.

        Of course, voting for Biden is the only stable option as much as one may lament that it shouldn’t be.

          • r_se_random@sh.itjust.works
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            8 months ago

            The other candidate will also support the Gaza genocide. Again, it’s unfortunate that both candidates are evil. And supporting the lesser evil is a bad long term strategy.

            But, here we are.

  • randon31415@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Or maybe people are overestimating his survivability in the hardest job in the planet. My prediction is no matter the victor, by January of 2029, the outgoing president will neither be Trump or Biden.

    • spujb@lemmy.cafe
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      8 months ago

      pictured: the literal reason bernie said these things.

      piss off with your accelerationist bullshit. people are going to die and you are flaunting your privilege by admitting you don’t care when it comes.

  • Emmie@lemm.ee
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    8 months ago

    I think it would be helpful if people tranformed their concerns from meaningless doomposting to active political effort.

    Cause the first is almost as bad as not worrying at all.

  • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
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    8 months ago

    Young people? How about Democrat party leadership? If you need certain people to vote for you, then you have to earn their votes! How is this so hard to understand?

    • fosho@lemmy.ca
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      8 months ago

      because that attitude only helps the objectively more horrible politicians. how is this so hard to understand?

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          8 months ago

          stakes are far too high to have the luxury of this brain dead take.

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            8 months ago

            Stakes are so high, but Dem leadership believes that supporting a genocide is more important than winning an election? Talk about brain dead.

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              8 months ago

              how about refusing to acknowledge that repubs would do the same or worse with this situation? no sane person thinks the situation is great. but brain dead is making a voting issue out of this when it isn’t one.

              • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
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                8 months ago

                I’m trying to convince essentially one guy to stop supporting genocide. People like you have the unenviable task of convincing millions of people to vote for a guy who currently supports genocide. The election isn’t happening tomorrow, why don’t you put your efforts into convincing your party leaders to adopt saner positions rather than bullying people who are genuinely and rightly outraged at what our country is and isn’t doing in regards to it’s support of Israel?

                • fosho@lemmy.ca
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                  8 months ago

                  once again, you’re making this into a voting issue when it isn’t one because neither party is interested in taking your preferred stance. naturally, withholding a vote because of this makes no sense especially when the stakes on other important issues are so high.

                  I understand how strongly you feel about this issue. I agree with your feelings about it. I would love to see the Israeli govt get pulverised for what they are doing. and it is objectively atrocious in every way that they are supported.

                  I can also use my brain to logically determine that refusing to vote dem is likely to put power into the hands of those who will do worse both on this specific issue and many others. voting for Biden might not make it better, but doing anything else will definitely make it worse. and that’s the brain dead choice.

  • Betide@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    The lesser of two evils argument only works if at some point you eventually give the people voting someone to vote for who is not evil. When you are forced to vote for evil after a while you lose hope and say screw this I’m not voting at all.

    • PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      People don’t seem to realize that every time they downvote an opinion like this, they’re just further alienating the left.

      • MrSpArkle@lemmy.ca
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        8 months ago

        Yeah and downvoting a racist will just alienate them and push them further right, and yet we still downvote.

        While occasionally someone might realize that they are in the wrong, the value of condemnation is in signaling to the community that such views are not tolerated.

  • daltotron@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    okay real question for the omega libs here: where do you see people that are like. worth taking seriously, right, that are worth engaging with (maybe that’s the major filter that I’m blocking out here since most people seem incapable of choosing who they actually want to engage with), who are the people that are worth engaging with that aren’t going to vote for the old zionist rapist guy? I mean, the democractic one? I’m pulling your chain there but like for real, where do you see the opposition that’s actually real?

    Most of the shit that I’ve seen, still, is like, people rightfully saying “oh, biden sucks, here’s why”, and then people bringing up “trump’s worse”. Like okay, just because I hate pancakes doesn’t mean I suddenly love waffles, you know? Food analogy I know I know, but really, like, where’s the real opposition coming from? I’m discounting the super pro-biden turbolibs also, because they annoy me with their smugness. So far as I can tell, the people who are fervently anti-biden to the point of like, idiocy, right, weren’t going to vote for him basically in any context, regardless of you know like damage control strategies, or the fact that voting didn’t take that much effort in totality compared to other activism they might do, or like, oh, could they vote as a protest in a non-swing state that’s basically guaranteed commitment to biden already as a kind of protest vote with questionable utility, that sort of thing. Most of the “opposition” I’ve seen hasn’t been actually calculated about any of that, because none of that stuff is really very controversial, or, it shouldn’t be. Most of them have just been like, not worth bothering with. Probably not russian bots or trolls like everyone would constantly say, because that’s also fucking idiotic, but probably, they’re just stupid people who aren’t worth wasting your time on.

    Basically why the fuck is everyone wasting their time on this like, stupid bullshit? How come every election, in equal measure, I see “vote blue no matter who” imbeciles trotted out in lock step, to shout down at “I will never vote for anyone because I’m a posadist accelerationist” terminally online idiots? There’s no nuance or real depth to the conversation, or strategy, it’s just like. Both sides can construct a strawman, and then basically get away with it because, on the vastness of the internet, said strawman is guaranteed to exist, especially if I make it kind of a vague ghost that I’m punching at. And then because of that, nobody ever has to actually like, work out any of their arguments in depth, because they’re too busy kind of churning forth the cycle of idiocy.

    I dunno, maybe digg 3.0 is just not conducive to good political discourse.

    • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod@lemmy.world
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      I’ve been round and round with the same folks who your post is directed at, and the conclusion I’ve drawn is “our government sucks, this is the best we can do, get used to it.”

      American history is littered with horrible actions. It’s not unreasonable to expect us to keep doing it. Our government was written to be undemocratic at the request of slaveholders. Even if we had a card-carrying capital-C Communist™ as president, there are massive mechanisms that would prevent them from achieving fundamental change.

      Joe Biden is literally the best we can do. This craphole of a country that shoots children protesting the killing of other children is literally the best we can do.

      It’s a lot less stressful to just accept this.

      • daltotron@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        yeah I dunno if I can though. I think probably if this is the best we can do then we’re headed down both a full-throated fascist reality of constant genocide, poverty, oppression, not only here but globally as america serves those ends globally, and basically a dystopian climate apocalypse on top of that.

        If I accept that, then I become a little bit suicidal, which is not allowed.

      • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        It’s a lot less stressful to just accept this.

        I wonder if that’s why suicide rates are at all time highs.

  • someguy3@lemmy.ca
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    8 months ago

    But but but I won’t vote in protest!1 That will definitely make them listen! (/s)

    PSA: Not voting means you have the relevance of an old man yelling at a cloud.

    You move the Overton window by voting. You want policy #857? You have to vote for policy #1 first. You have to walk before you can run.

      • someguy3@lemmy.ca
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        8 months ago

        Lol you think Biden is right of Trump. Right well thank you for letting me know I don’t have to reply any further.

          • someguy3@lemmy.ca
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            8 months ago

            I could sus it like you think Biden moved it right (lol), but that requires you ignore Trump would have actually moved it rght, which is exactly the Overton window is moving it as left as you can every step, but why the fuck am I bothering even with this you’ll just say but but but but but but Biden bad! I’m out.