Hot take: .world and others banning/blocking /c/ is better for the fediverse and for piracy. It means less eyes on piracy discussions and incentivizes users to spread out to other instances instead of just all using .world.
Fantastic take. Imagine a conglomerate of smaller instances that largely make no waves and allow 70% of the community to just see what they want. Dare to dream.
It’s a great take and I hope they do continue to ban/block more controversial topics so people spread out more.
Not sure why nobody in the comments is distinguishing between blocking a community on an instance (removing /c/piracy) and defederating instances (saying your users can’t subscribe to otherinstance.com/c/piracy). They are very different things. We should be very skeptical of defederation.
Removing a community because it violates the rules of your instance is A-OK and every instance should do this. Anybody can run an instance, and anybody can set their own rules, that’s the whole idea of federation.
De-federating other instances because you find their content objectionable is less ok. Lemmy is like e-mail. Everybody registers at gmail or office365 or myfavoriteemail.com. Every email host runs their own servers, but they all talk to each other through an open protocol. You would be pissed to find out that gmail just suddenly decided to stop accepting mail from someothermailprovider.com because a bunch of their users are pirates or tankies. Or blocked your favourite email newsletter from reaching your inbox because it had inflammatory political content.
Allowing your users to receive e-mail, or content from subcommunities on other lemmy instances is not a legal risk like hosting the content yourself is (IANAL etc). Same way Gmail is not liable if somebody on some other e-mail server does something illegal by emailing a gmail user. That’s why you can register at torrentwebsite.com and get a user confirmation email successfully delivered to your inbox. Gmail is federated with all other e-mail services without needing to endorse them or accept legal liability for them.
Lemmy’s strength, value, and future comes from being the largest federated space for link-sharing and other forms of communication.
De-federation is bad.
defederation is good for nazi and CSAM instances. no one should touch either with a 10ft pole. there’s absolutely no reason to give them a larger platform.
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“CSAM instances” <– Pretty sure any publicly facing instances with this problem would be tackled by law enforcement pretty quickly.
as far as I’ve heard, they’re still up and major instances are still federated with them.
“Nazi instances”< – These ones will likely de-federate themselves from the wider federated web, they can’t handle a broad range of perspectives well.
this is a deep misunderstanding of how far-right groups operate. they actively seek connection with the wider community because it presents them a chance to recruit and they’re numbers get decimated when they’re deplatformed. offering them a base of users to proselytize to only benefits them.
Social media has enabled these groups to both silo themselves and get promoted to users site-wide
yes precisely
This method of content promotion is responsible for the explosion of online hate content in the last decade
this has a deeper material reason underlying it. it’s got more to do with economic decay and the lack of prospects people face than the algorithms. we saw the same thing early last century. far-right ideology explodes in popularity when the left fails to make the case for a more equitable distribution of resources and because our oligarchs fund them to an obscene degree – minor fascists with a hundred followers on social media will receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in funding (cf Ali Alexander). fascist ideology spreads because it poses scapegoats for the problems in society.
Nazis had plenty of websites in the 90 and early 2000’s but they didn’t get much traction with them because Facebook wasn’t forcing them into your home feed
yes, precisely. if normal instances federate with the nazi ones, this won’t be true any longer because their content WILL flood the feeds of many people. this will have disastrous consequences for lemmy as a platform.
I really don’t have a problem with these sites existing, people should be free to have their own disgusting racist thoughts and share them with their own little chat rooms and forums and the like.
I do as me and mine belong to groups they target. if they’re allowed to rise to accumulate any power, it will spell death for us. there have already been multiple attempts in the US to organize pograms against trans people, as an example.
And they should be ruthlessly mocked and kicked out of every other space they could possibly go to.
however, I’d like to point out that 4chan originally started making memes to mock the fascists – their use of irony turned over time into unironic fascism and they became a hotbed for neo-fascists.
Again, using the e-mail example, I can get an email from whitepowerwebsite as a gmail user. That’s not google giving them a platform, it’s just a neutral protocol for online communication (e-mail) working in a federated state as it’s meant to
email is a bad example because it only provides point-to-point communication, unless you join a mailing list. social media is different – views get broadcast to the wider public on a given platform. federating with nazis allows them to broadcast their views and create a sense that their vision of the world is actually what everyone else believes. exploding-heads is federated with lemmy.world and the consequence is that many users have left lemmy.world specifically to get away from the fascists dumping their disgusting worldview onto the platform.
Gmail isn’t expected to police the entirety of e-mail, the legal liabilities lie with the sender and receiver.
they actually do have liability under laws like the DMCA, SESTA/FOSTA, and the new slate of laws recently passed to go after sex traffickers (and in reality a wide host of “undesirable” content more generally). but that aside, I’m not talking about legal liability. I’m talking about the responsibility the people running these instances have to not help build fascism. it’s an ethical/political responsibility, not a legal one.
You are right about worsening economic conditions leading to the rise of far right movements. I was more speaking to their digital footprint. If you remember early Facebook, it was nothing like what people use today.
yes, precisely. if normal instances federate with the nazi ones, this won’t be true any longer because their content WILL flood the feeds of many people. this will have disastrous consequences for lemmy as a platform.
If lemmy A is federated w lemmy B (the nazi one), it means:
- Users on Lemmy A can subscribe to communities and users on Lemmy B and vice versa
- Users on Lemmy A can comment on communities on Lemmy B and vice versa
It does not mean:
- Posts from lemmy B show up on Lemmy A (except in the “global” view on main page, which is non-default, and likely won’t show up their either due to massive downvoting). I would imagine, in time, that the global tab actually gets entirely removed since you have a problem where a single lemmy instance can massively inflate their vote count to make their votes the top voted posts across the whole network. You can’t enforce instances to follow the rules on this and you can’t audit their compliance. There are certainly some solutions to this involving blockchain but that’s an aside and those are at least a few years away afaik. 90% of users never do the “non-default” option in whatever app they’re in.
So this flooding the feeds scenario, I just don’t see it. In user-moderated platforms, vocal minorities don’t show up anywhere, they get moderated out basically automatically except in their own little enclaves. There is no scenario in which Lemmy as a federation provides a good platform for them (outside of their own nazi-friendly instance), because Lemmy doesn’t work like other social media works.
In user-moderated platforms, vocal minorities don’t show up anywhere, they get moderated out basically automatically except in their own little enclaves.
I will take this to mean communists make up a soft majority on lemmy given the number of complaints about commie posting keep popping up on the major comms
While I agree with you, I’d really love the possibility of block whole instances, just for me. I don’t want my instance from defederating from much, but I’d like for example to block all the porn without having to find myself some christian lemmy instance to move to lol
You would be free to do that, just as you can make filters in gmail. But the difference is who gets to make that decision.
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Nah I gotta disagree on this one. I specifically joined this instance as a welcoming space. I’m glad we’re defederated from the tankie and far right instances. I want none of that here. You can feel differently for the “main” instances or whatever you want to call them, but for me, defederation is amazing.
If someone’s email domain is @ihateminorities.com, I’d say that’s pretty fair grounds for blocking it.
There are some instances that actively promote hateful or extremist content, and exist for the purpose of hosting it. There are others that do not actively support that content but do allow it, anywhere, making blocking one community not enough. Defederation is an important tool and should be used wisely.
Very good point
If an instance is merely blocked, does that mean all content produced by that instance, or by a Lemmy.World user using that instance, is strictly not stored on Lemmy.World servers?
Otherwise there might still be liability. Also, in the US you don’t even have to do anything illegal to be the target of a lawsuit—distancing from piracy is a practical defense against the cost of legal proceedings, even if it’s technically legal.
Also lemmy.world is not the most stable instance and experiences a lot of downtime. My user experience got a lot better after I moved out of lemmy.world.
I’ve explicitly been using my beehaw.org account pretty much exclusively because of the constant DDOS attacks on lemmy.world.
Kinda funny how their plan to seemingly kill Lemmy is just helping it stay decentralized by pushing people to other instances.
do you think i’d have a chance at getting in if for my application i just say i want to get away from lemmygrad and hexbear?
It wouldn’t hurt mentioning that as part of your application lol
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It experiences a lot of downtime because the alt right kids who got defederated keep using 4chans ddos tool to bring it down…
It’s not going down from normal user load.
If only people knew how hard the staff was working to improve things and keep it up.
I have created my own instance. With blackjack! And hookers, err, NSFW.
I found a cheap VPS and the easy_deploy script from git, that’s how it started. And for 10 €/month I’ll keep it going with a user count of 1.
Kinda expensive vps for a single person instance, is it not?
Maybe, but I’m enjoying it.
I think their point is you could have spent a lot less.
is that considered best practice ?
i’m not sure how any of this is supposed to work or if as a user i am supposed to care.
i’ve budgeted next month to pay the maintainer of the thingy that i am thingy-ing and hopefully on a monthly basis. but is the end game for users to run their own instances ?
It’s the same as hosting your own email server. Yes it’s “best practice” to host your own, but there’s updates, bug workarounds, certificates, etc etc that makes it easier to use someone else’s server. In the end it’s a personal choice.
Like hosting your own email server, if you also copy everyone else’s emails to your server for the heck of it.
The end game is to either run your own instance, or find an instance that is run by an admin with the same mindset as you might have.
Or use multiple accounts on different instances that represent your different interests. Like maybe you have a “news & shitposting” account, and another “programming and piracy” one, etc. And ensure each account is on an instance that supports the necessary federations to support that.
or find an instance that is run by an admin with the same mindset as you might have.
I found one that apparently does for me, but then that mindset is “let me see everything, and leave what I want to view up to me”.
That’s a pretty common mindset amongst small instance runners I think, including the one I’m on. Only caveat, this instance doesn’t allow NSFW posting (viewing is fine), and has a pretty vague ban policy lmao
If you don’t mind me asking: how much are you paying per month?
None yet. When I came here I had been away from reddit for about seven months looking for a place to put poems and homer stuff. Really this conversation has informed me onto what exactly is going on here in the fedvee.
i don’t use reddit/facebook/twitter/insta/toktik/et cetera. I am just looking for a mostly texty experience without me having to run an instance of anything with mild socializing on other instances.
As for how much I have to a “give” part of my monthly budget that last month was a give to the food bank. it revolves around the food bank, one of the three local homeless shelters, the local animal companion welfare places and then generally in August I buy myself a LEGO set for when the rain starts instead of giving because I can be a selfish fuck.
i have added this to the “give” part of my budget with a note to do it for sure right after an upgrade or major outage because my instance admin will prolly want some love after that.
that is my current strategy for not wearing out instance welcome.
Take a look at WriteFreely. It is more focused on writing long form and blogging and also works really well with other fediverse software.
I can never tell if this is an invitation to leave or what. I like it here.
It doesn’t have to be a either/or. I am just saying: If you are looking for a place to write, maybe a blogging platform would be more suitable than a link sharing/discussion platform?
You can still stay on both.
That makes two of us, then.
I would do it too if there is a way to monetize it just to pay the VPS costs.
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I don’t recall what movie, but it did really bad at the box office and of course they blamed piracy. Until somebody got a hold of the statistics and showed it was one of the least pirated movie releases ever.
was it Morbius
Imma get downvoted for this, but for some reason I care even less than I did on Reddit, which I didn’t think was possible…
Anyway, do you honestly think that if piracy actually caused significant profit loss it would affect the billionaires or anyone else in the “investor class”?
Of course not. They’re going to use the ahem “loss” to justify lower wages.
I’m not saying don’t pirate. I’m just saying you don’t get to pretend like you’re just hurting the class that gets to decide where the loss gets shunted. That’s a wildly naïve view of how the world works. You can’t fuck over the billionaires that way. They have too much power to let you.
Or they’ll start injecting ads directly into the media.
Oh wait, they’re already doing this. I forgot about the 45 minute Chevy ad in Barbie.
@erogenouswarzone @s20 oh right, because that wasn’t the case with movies like Transformers (again GM) or Superman and Marlboro being conspicuously visible throughout the movie, or ET when Reese’s pieces paid to be a central part of the movie
Sean, I didn’t mean to offend you or insinuate that I didn’t like Barbie. I have a daughter, and watched it with her and watch the dreamhouse show with her on Netflix all the time. I actually really liked the movie - except the long boring parts where they tried to justify Barbie’s existence in our modern society.
Yes, those movies also have heavy product placements, but it doesn’t somehow excuse all other movies from having them, if that is your point.
My point is that piracy has already impacted our lives. The commercials in movies are the evidence. Further piracy will cause either more ads in media or less content that targets the demographic of people that pirate (ie 18-35 yo men probably).
@erogenouswarzone piracy isn’t the reason why there’s product placement was my point, since it occurred from the start of Public Relations and the practice of earned media and payola. Eliminating piracy wouldn’t affect product placement, and claiming so sounds like those ignoramuses who say if minimum wage is increased that jobs would be automated away - min wage has remained the same for over a decade and jobs are being automated anyway, jobs will be eliminated regardless of min wage laws
@erogenouswarzone similar to product placement, it’s not done by production companies because piracy is occurring, it’s down regardless of the state of piracy to maximize profits. Labor scarcity goes away when wages reflect the demand and profit maximization is disregarded; movies disregarding profit maximization would then not have product placement and it’s not a function of piracy, that’s just the scapegoat for things to take place of the profit maximization. Profit motive≠profit maximization
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Yeah, because pirates never steal from indie developers and act like assholes if those developers ask not to do it. Those damn parasites asking to be paid for work, gee.
Oh yeah cause there are as many people who pirate 20$ well developed games as there are people who pirate a ≥60$ triple A game that has about the same quality as the shits i take
Okay, lets see some critically aclaimed indie game(undertale), as indie game undoubtly deserving to be bought, and compare it to AAA game series released the same year which deserves to be pirated, according to community. I will use call of duty because its the type of game series i see often said to be the reason to pirate by thiefs: AAA, high price, every year title, shitty studio.
I use very popular local torrent website, as i dont want to search what is the current most used worldwide website for it, and if it tracks number of downloads.
Undertale(2015)-51k downloads.
CoD black ops 3(2015)-54k downloads.
So now answer me, why? Is undertale the same quality shit as call of duty? Or is it even worse considering that it is way less popular, so in corelation of pirated copes divided by copies bought, more people prefered to buy CoD?
Whats funny is sometimes its used as a test drive. Baulders gate as a new one I know had a decent amount of pirating, and then many forms are talking about how they loved it and then bought a copy.
Because most people play cod for the multiplayer wich wouldn’t work on a pirated version.
Undertale is a single player game wich doesn’t lose features because you pirated it.
Another answered the same, so i got an example of fallout 4 with 45k downloads
There are following possiblities one would need to account for:
• you said you’re using a popular local torrent site, depending on where you live interest for fallout and undertale may vary strongly. (Maybe undertale is way more popular than fallout where you live. Or vice versa)
• There is also the possibility of outliers. Be it for that particular site or all sites worldwide.
• Also the sample size is pretty small with 2 games, for an accurate statistic one would need to increase sample size. Better yet use multiple different sample sizes (i.e. one where AAA and indie games are the same popularity, one where AAA is less popular etc.)
• And at last you also could’ve just lied as i have not received proof that these numbers are real.
Now im not saying that the possibilities are the case, just that it may be.
If you want you can do a research accounting for these possibilities (and maybe even more) but i think this would be a bit much for a comment section under a meme.
I would’ve linked website if it wouldnt get me banned. Idk, maybe i can link it in pm, not sure if there are rules against it.
Regarding outliers/variation/sample:are you saying that if i would do the same experiment i wouldnt see the same picture for other critically aclamed titles (idk, celeste, StS, etc.)?
Its just funny that pirates keep saying that they steal games to stick out to greedy companies and to punish them for making bad games. Yet when you point out that they steal good indie games just as much (or even more if you take into account overall sales of those games) all you get is insults.
Because CoD Black Ops requires internet in order to access most of the content, such as multiplayer. Undertale does not. You got any other, more relevant examples?
Okay, fallout 4-45k.
64k if you count the second torrent on the list separatelly (undertale would be 67k in that case).
The most cockeyed comparison ever…
Still better than your argument, or rather, lack of it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I remember a few months ago some comics creators were complaining about the various Russian pirate sites for books out there and people were trying to call them classist due to the fact not everyone can afford a comic. Most comic creators are not Hollywood billionaires, they’re artists living on the breadline in a lot of cases. By all means pirate of you want to buy people making it out to be moral or honourable wind me up.
Yep. Im ok with people pirating stuff. There is different shit happening in live. Just steal what you need and move on without making it bigger than it needs to be.
But acting like you isnt leeching of others people work, like you are doing a honourable thing and the only ones against it are greedy corporations is fucking cringe. And then there is also people who make it into their personality lol.
That’s the thing, everything needs to be a community these days, some people can’t just download a torrent now and then and get on with it, they have to start a “community” about it. I’ve noticed shoplifting is similar these days too.
Now I absolutely need to see this shoplifting community. Please post a link.
I don’t know how to copy a link to a community in Jerboa, but one is under [email protected]
Holy fucking shit they’re blocking piracy? What a bunch of losers. Get off the anti-corporate platform built on copyleft principles if you have a problem with piracy.
I created an account today on lemm.ee because I thought defeterating from hexbear sucked, then there were others and today was the last straw, even though I don’t pirate. I didn’t leave reddit for more restrictive platform. Lemmy.world sucks balls.
The losers are commenting on this site as well.
https://hexbear.net/post/317675
Transphobia? That’s cool with them. Treating food workers like shit? Also fine. But watch a copy of a movie? “Horrible theft”. There are people dying over preventable causes due to patents that aren’t even held by the creators. I hate liberals
lmao of course the bootlicker clutches pearls over “trans ideology”.
Yes, because it’s illegal. If you’re going to be the biggest host you’re a bigger target which means you need to be more careful. What’s good about the fediverse is that you have distributed instances so smaller ones can support things like piracy, and if a small one gets taken down there will be others in its place. The same game of whack a mole is what has allowed torrent tracker sites to exist. If there was one centralized torrent tracker site it would get shut down.
What the post says is exactly right. You’d be an idiot to have one account for your normal usage and piracy usage. In your normal usage you’ll inevitably leak personally identifiable information. Having multiple accounts and multiple instances is the exactly right thing to do to keep piracy alive.
There is nothing illegal about talking about piracy. Get a grip. This is entirely about taking a moral position, because the server is run by liberals with a clear and obvious political position, as demonstrated by their mass banning of socialists.
They’re not just talking about piracy, they’re linking to it. There’s piracy subs on Reddit too and they’re allowed because they are very careful to only talk about it and not link to it, and they’re severely gimped because of that. What’s great about lemmy is that instances that are on with the risk can do so without having to follow anyone else’s rules and users can access it by simply having another account.
Linking to pirate sites is also not illegal. https://1337x.to/ woooooooOOooOOooooo scary! I just broke the lawwwww according to you, get a grip.
I think the media companies have been abusing the DMCA to go after people who link to pirated material. also, I’m starting to suspect world is trying to get funding because they’re trying to “clean” the site up in exactly the way banks/VCs require for loans. it’s a conservative interpretation of the law, especially the recent rounds that purported to go after human trafficking but actually forced major websites to take down anything remotely objectionable.
Ahh they’re trying to sell out. Gross.
Wasn’t the admin of .world one of the ones who went into the NDA’d cocksucking meetups with Meta?
I’m starting to suspect world is trying to get funding because they’re trying to “clean” the site up in exactly the way banks/VCs require for loans.
If that’s true they’re idiots. It’s not even fucking necessary. All the social media VCs deliberately take the most neutral stance possible for the LARGEST possible userbases. Did reddit? Did any other social media site do that? Fuck no they didn’t. They viewed them as user sources and valuable towards growth. It’s literally the opposite of what every VC funded group does.
The cleanup only happens before an IPO. During VC funding companies are always as free as they can possibly be.
yeah, that’s the part that confuses me. whatever it is, it’s another stupid decision in a series of stupid decisions, and hopefully it just kills the instance.
“Wow, Blockbuster sucks because I have to drive to a physical store. I know, let’s open up another brick-and-mortar store that’s exactly like Blockbuster minus the name recognition. That’ll show 'em!”
Reddit never had any issues with r/Piracy. They don’t host anything, they just refer to websites that host stuff. If anything they’d help companies to discover what websites they should take down.
Eh? It’s understandable. They shouldn’t be forced to deal with any legal issues that come with it.
You can just use another instance that fits your needs, isn’t that the whole point of this decentralized model?
There are no legal issues. You can fucking talk about piracy completely legally. This is a moral position being taken under the excuse of legality by liberals who run their server with a strict political leaning, as demonstrated by their mass banning of socialists and defederation from every left wing space.
Hasn’t reddit already gotten into legal trouble multiple times regarding that sub? Even very recently with film piracy.
And let’s not pretend these communities only ‘discuss’ piracy, as much as they try to keep it within that limit. These corporations wouldn’t care even if they did.
The idea that corporations will come after federated instances that aren’t even creating the posts instead of the source is nonsensical. Until the source is attacked there is literally no reason anyone should be concerned, and if the source is taken down then it won’t be on other instances anymore anyway.
The idea that corporations will come after federated instances that aren’t even creating the posts instead of the source is nonsensical
Is it? Content from federated instances are cached on the instance itself too, no?
I wouldn’t take the risk federating with legally questionable instances, and no one should have to. I’d just use an alt account for that on another instance that is federated, and I do.
if the source is taken down then it won’t be on other instances anymore anyway.
That doesn’t seem to be the case. vlemmy.net has gone down permanently it seems, and I can still access the content on there that were made while it was up from other instances.
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Enjoy!
Sucks but if Lemmy.World is gonna be the “face” of Lemmy it’s probably best to keep the shadier sides of the fediverse out. Just to keep the damn lawyer trolls off our back.
Plus it keeps the “uninitiated normies” out of the Piracy instance. At least until they know.
They will never be the face because they’re always down.
You ain’t wrong lol
Don’t you all love democracy?
Let’s vote on who is the face of the fediverse.
Sweet logo, ngl
Here’s our actual logo.
My obvious bias aside it is a banger logo.
It comes in lots off different flavors.
:
Those are sick ngl.
linkZ to the NFTZ?
We are socialists… just right click and save them.
I think it was a joke and a really good one.
Huh? What NFTs?
The NFT was a lie.
🥰
Don’t you all love democracy?
This sentence implies that you don’t. Why don’t you like democracy?
it implies that it’s not democracy. people just make accounts based on which instance is currently the largest.
@[email protected] was saying that the “face of lemmy” wasn’t voted on, and is surprised, because libs like yourself usually like democracy…
Any Lemmy instance list which shows communities that have been defed by each instances? Should help new users make better choices.
feedit.de offers a list of instances they have defederated.
Every instance shows that list
Yeah, but a singular place that have all this data would make it so much better.
huh, really? I couldn’t find it in the side bar of lemmy.ml which is why I thought that it is something they do in particular.
Just go to {{instanceurl}}/instances. Scroll to the bottom for the defederated instances.
On any instance, you can just scroll down to the bottom of the page, there should be a Instances link on the right side of it, along side Modlog, Docs, Code…
PS: This on a browser
They all do, just add /instances after the url
That gives you who they block, but unfortunately not who they are blocked by.
Ah, I misinterpreted what they were asking for.
Facilitating Piracy no matter how you put it is wrong and illegal, it is wrong and illegal to support people who do it.
Remember Netizen, when you’re pirating Disney, you’re downloading communism!
Facilitating Piracy no matter how you put it is wrong and illegal, it is wrong and illegal to support people who do it.
I love how some people assume that everyone agrees on the ethics of piracy
Piracy is bad, mkay?
“You wouldn’t download a communism”
A would download & 3D print both communism & Disney, then watch them fight
Where is this quote from
Old poster but I’m not sure the exact year
no I meant the first quote (thx tho)
For some reason now when I try to view the comment it’s not there, but I can see it in the full comment thread. https://sh.itjust.works/comment/2195177
thanks a lot!
it’s the admin message on lemmy.world
i haven’t read that anywhere
Oh do please tell me about this “piracy” you speak of. Pirates are my people, I sailed the seas with them back in 1998 and my 28 kilobaud modem. Unfortunately I have lost sight of them in the private tracker wars.
I’ve never bothered with private trackers, what benefits do they actually provide?
Speed, quality, safety, and seed status are the main benefits IMO. The downsides are you have to keep a good ratio or at least not hit and run.
Back when I used public sites I remember most torrents being slow, in private sites many people use a seed box so even if there are only a couple seeds it’s usually still blazing fast. Since uploaders in private sites have some reputation to upkeep, their releases will usually be quality. I also feel completely safe downloading something with only a couple seeds on private sites, but on public sites I worry if I’m downloading a virus if there are no comments and very few seeds.
The private sites are also usually not big enough for anyone to care about, so the chances of them being taken down or targeted are minimal.
I have also not gotten one ISP warning since moving over to private sites years ago, and that’s even with not using a VPN
Yeah, it makes very little sense to “play the long game” on a private site to spread malware to a small user base when you could just go to any public tracker where it’s the Wild West. Could someone do it? Sure, but it’s really not realistic to expect that regularly.
They say they provide curation of content, keep out lawyers and provide an incentive to seed.
In practice none of these are provided.
What they really are, are entities who sell access to copyright infringement material.
They discourage network effect free sharing. They discourage posting content with investors rules and they impede seeding by creating a zero sum economy where nobody wants to download anything unless they really have to because you won’t be able too seed your ratio back to 1 as everybody tries to seed and nobody disappears.
It leads to the ridiculous practice of downloading whatever gets posted on the RSS feed, just so you can seed it to other people who blind download stuff just to seed it. Basically a pump and dump scheme where someone always end up holding the bag.
All this to motivate people to buy their ratio back. I’ve seen one recent case they were charging 20$ to free leech 80gb.
In other words private trackers are shit, kill private trackers with DHT
Some of them have freeleech on some torrents. TorrentLeech has freeleech on every torrent over a certain size (I think 15 GB) + Box Sets of any size and then you just have to seed for 10 days total, then you can stop without penalty to your ratio. I have never paid money to TorrentLeech for access. I suppose this would change quickly if I was downloading individual episodes of a new show or 10 to 14.99 GB torrents, but that’s not my usual usage pattern.
I will say that some of your criticism is correct. I will often avoid using the private tracker to avoid having to seed for 10 days. I can’t get to a 1.0 ratio on private trackers, but I can on public ones, but freeleech seeding adds to my ratio with no penalty for downloading. The zero-sum vibe is both real and off-putting.
I currently have a ratio surplus of 34 GB, and it started me with 25 GB. The benefit is if I really want something, it’s easy to access
I seed 5tb per month, the limit of my seedbox. All on public trackers since if they were private torrents, the seedbox would just sit idle.
I’ve never had an experience like that on private trackers. Of the three I’ve used recently, one has no ratio tracking and just a “gentlemen’s agreement” that you seed back. One tracks ratio but doesn’t care about it, they only care that you seed back for X hours during a two week period or something like that, and the last one does track ratio, but you also get points for just seeding content even if nobody downloads from you, and you can use those points to get upload credit. None require a 1:1 ratio on anything.
I’ve never had problems keeping a good ratio on any of these sites, I just let them seed from my media server until I decide to delete them. I even use a fairly small upload bandwidth since my service provider only gives me like 10Mbps upload.
Lol, what kinds of shitty private trackers are you on?
411, ygg, bunch of others that made me jump hoops to join and then had those shitty policies. I stopped using private trackers a long time ago.
I equate private tracker with shit tracker and not worth my time nor my seedbox bandwidth.
DHT should have made trackers obsolete. We should have torrents of torrent files.
I was invited to a private tracker by a friend who swore by them as having way more stability and more people seeding. Turns out, even after interviewing, I was never able to connect to a single torrent. Went back to public and never looked back.
None, just use a VPN and thepiratebay/nyaa/whatever else and stop being a baby
Dont use thepiratebay, jesus christ its so unsafe (for apps atleast)
I would never execute a pirated app in a non sandboxed environment, that’s just silly.
Just buy games on steam like the rest of the world.
I’m talking movies and anime personally
Jesus is bungiefan_ak holding you at gunpoint or something
Who tf
I have like 600 games in my backlog between emulation and steam sales, why would I risk a keylogger snatching my bank info?
You think you’re safe using a private tracker? Lol
I might trust fitgirl repacks, if I was truly broke and desperate and kept it to my gaming only partition.
i feel like you don’t trust piracy because you bricked the family computer when you were 12
i feel like blocking of instances leads to worse echo chambers than subreddits themselves. We gonna have bubbles of federation networks that don’t federate with each other. E.g. lefties, righties, “dark web” illegal shit, kinky shit, and instances that federate with all of them will be blocked by other instances because “use my blacklist or get defederated”. This is gonna lead to hell for users having to create fifty accounts for each bubble. Aint nobody got time for that.
i wish it remained a user’s option to block/unblock content they don’t/do want to see. Each instance could provide their “recommended” default list of enabled instances, and user can go and enable others, like how NSFW toggle works. Maybe group instances into categories with tags or something, like “porn”, “memes”, “tankies”, “nazis”, “warez”, etc
We’re gonna need a Lemmy client that can log into multiple accounts at the same time and display a combined feed of allof those accounts…
Liftoff has been doing that for A while
Thanks for the rec, I had no idea
Now we need one that does that and is available on FDroid.
Liftoff is fantastic for that
I think with the principles Lemmy was made under the fracturing of the community into blocs is basically inevitable. You’ll have the original/developer/“tankie” bloc at lemmy.ml, the more mainstream/liberal bloc at lemmy.world, and all the smaller instances orbiting around and between them some connected to both and some connected to neither.
To do something like you suggest would require a single, centralized instance that lists all the others and tags them to allow users to pick which ones to subscribe to - and if the Lemmy devs did that then we’d be right back to the problems inherent to
.The big issue with that. Is where the host instance is located.
If Lennyworld is located somewhere piracy will get them shut down. Federatng a pirate instance is a bad idea.
Hosting is the legal issue. Linking to illegal content that somebody else is hosting is much harder to tackle legally, which is why isohunt was around for so long despite being based in the US. IIRC they shut down not because they lost any lawsuits but because they just couldn’t afford the legal battle.
Exactly, and Lenny world’s pockets are tiny probably
So long as major instances continue to rely on blacklists rather than whitelists, that won’t be a problem for the hundreds of small instances.
The primary purpose of the defederation mechanism is not to block content from readers, it’s to prevent brigades. A big problem on Reddit is vote manipulation (not to mention shit stirrers showing up uninvited). On Reddit some mods would just ban everyone who ever posted in a subreddit (like T_D), defederation is essentially the same thing.
Either way you call it, it’s someone else deciding for me
No it isn’t. You’ve got the whole Fediverse to choose from. That’s the whole fucking point.
If you want every single decision to go your way, run your own instance. Otherwise, quit moaning and find an instance that suits you.
Live in someone’s house, then follow their rules. Otherwise buy your own house or find another house.
That’s what I associate lemmy instances with. Anyways I’m glad that we are free to choose where we maintain our accounts. Unlike reddit wher we cannot even move in order to change the environment, cause it’s all under one management.
I would say to all the people who came here from reddit that none of these instances are ‘your’ house unless you actually created them. This is September and you’re all freshmen.
How very sophomoric of you
Sorry, I couldn’t resist the play on words
It’s for the person paying for the hosting and maintaining the server to decide what they want their server to do
You can discuss and promote piracy, but lemmy.world is the biggest instance so hosting links up pirated content will get them shut down. The post is 100% right, just make multiple accounts. You want the illegal stuff distributed. What’s great about Lemmy is you can still have other accounts on those networks.
Most people will not put their time and energy into running an instance which is destined to become a fascist playground with policies like those. You might not like it but in this real world that we are all forced to live in, that is what those policies lead to.
Honest question, is there an app or frontpage that would allow to mix instances that are not federated? Unless an instance has access to everything, having two accounts will show a lot of duplicated contentent (for example, in “all” it will show [email protected] in likely all instances)
It would be simpler just to pick an instance that to date refuses to defederate from anyone. I use SDF, and I picked it in part for that reason.
I also don’t think they’re going anywhere, since SDF has been around continuously since the 80s (literally started as an anime BBS) and still runs a lot of services that would seem unusual to care about these days (including having a gopher server), so I figure their Lemmy, Mastodon, Pixelfed, Matrix, etc instances aren’t going anywhere.
It would but then that bath water comes with the baby.
I can get people talking about piracy but it comes with Russian propaganda, Hitler love, fat shaming and homophobia.
It would be kind of cool to have a client where your communities come from specific instances where you want them. If an instance goes down have it pick a backup instance and pull the community from there. Of course it would require separate accounts in separate communities with separate subs on each instance, making each user weigh many times there normal cost for lemmy operation.
There’s always self-hosting, but it has its own discovery pitfalls. When you’d like a pie hole and public rated block lists where you can tell it what you do and don’t want to see
Sh.itjust.works seems to be an instance that is pretty good about being chill with stuff while also blocking the really bad instances,it’s also super stable. They’ve had 2? Outages maybe 3, compared to lemmy.world’s endless ones.
I was trying to make an account there yesterday and it was down all day. Was it down for you yesterday or am I doing something wrong?
It was down for a few hours yesterday I think, that was the third outage it’s had like ever as far as I’ve seen
You can always choose what you subscribe to and use the subscribed feed, or alternately just block communities that offend you as you encounter them, depending on how tightly curated an experience you want to have. I honestly feel like the only thing that needs is the ability to use wildcards in blocked community names to let you block a bunch of related communities quickly.
SDF
are they still federated with beehaw?
Yes (just checked out of curiosity). And Burggit, and Lemmygrad, and Exploding-Heads and virtually everyone else. They don’t block other instances, as far as I can tell.
According to their instances list, they do not block anyone, and according to the other search thingy they are only blocked by 7 instances, all private Mastodon instances.
Not that I’ve seen, at least not cleanly. It’s the dream I’m looking for.
Lemmy.world is turning vanilla. They closed the shrooms community too!
What’s the shrooms community?
Not sure how to properly post it for everyone, but [email protected] or [email protected]
The second one, thanks.
Welp, I guess that’s it for me, I’m not looking to have my hand held while I access information. I can decide for myself what is and is not acceptable on my feed. Maybe .world is just feeling the crunch and they need to thin out the numbers? It’s a shame either way.
But that’s why federation is great. If you don’t like how one instance handles stuff you can move to any other instance that suits you or even host your own.
You’re absolutely right. It is very nice having options again.
I know that is what broke the camels back for me, not that I personally partake in piracy but, it concerns me because if that is being done, what else could be being done. I understand the legal ramifications of the storage of it but, idk it just put a bad taste in my mouth, it was the first instance of censorship that didn’t make full sense and was made due to a random account that was downvoted to oblivion, was super concerning. I still have an account on it but, it made me aware I needed more variety
