Is it “Camel-uh” or “Cam-ahl-uh”?

    • magnetosphere@fedia.io
      29·
      5 months ago

      Thank you for this. I’ve heard her name mispronounced so often that I genuinely thought kah-MALL-uh was correct. Whoops! Comma-la it is!

      • otp@sh.itjust.works
        11·
        5 months ago

        Isn’t the Pokemon’s name pronounced like coma + koala? Coma and comma are different.

        • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
          1·
          5 months ago

          🤷I’ve been pronouncing it as Ko-Ma-La without the emphasise of ow. I appreciate this post though, i’ve seen so many asian name being butchered by english speaking country it become annoying.

          • otp@sh.itjust.works
            2·
            5 months ago

            Ko-Ma-La without the emphasise of ow.

            I’m not sure I follow. Coma would probably be “ko-ma”, like I’d suggested, whereas comma is something like “cah-ma”…but I’m not sure where the “ow” comes in

    • MHLoppy@fedia.io
      16·
      5 months ago

      “Comma-la” unfortunately doesn’t help much for people without US accents lol (though of course people in the US are who the question and answer are most relevant to). On first reading – without the accent or something close to it – it implies “kom-uh-luh”, whereas with the accent it implies something more like “kah-muh-luh”, just based on how people pronounce “comma” differently.

    • Miaou@jlai.lu
      1·
      5 months ago

      It’s funny because the way you spelt it sounds like the first “don’t” of the video you linked. Americans in general seem to make a point of pronouncing things their way rather than how they should be. I don’t think it’s racism as much as it is laziness.

      • memfree@lemmy.ml
        2·
        5 months ago

        their way rather than how they should be.

        Every language has different sounds. It has long been understood that languages will translate words/names into versions they can actually hear and pronounce. Sadly, some people mock or demean people who try to speak a non-native language and make errors in it. In the U.S. it used to be fairly common to mock Asians coming from a language with only one liquid consonant sound for their inability to differentiate between ‘r’ and ‘l’ sounds.

        I know I can’t hear the difference in various Russian language vowels and while I can hear tones, I don’t know how I’d explain their pronunciation in an Anglicized name – or if it would be relevant.

        While I appreciate that regional accents mean that non-U.S. citizens might not say “comma” the way it is heard in the U.S., I do expect that if a U.S. citizen tells me to pronounce their own name in a U.S. manner, then that is how it “should be” pronounced.

      • Umbrias@beehaw.org
        1·
        5 months ago

        sorry are you saying people should pronounce their own names in ways they don’t prefer to be “correct”? Also etc etc language guides are descriptive not prescriptive.

        • Isoprenoid@programming.devEnglish
          51·
          5 months ago

          Did you read the rest of my post? You can’t say “correctly pronounce it”, and then not give instruction. That doesn’t help anyone.

          • PapaStevesy@lemmy.world
            12·
            5 months ago

            If the video specifically made to teach you how to pronounce her name didn’t help, what makes you think I can?

            • Isoprenoid@programming.devEnglish
              3·
              5 months ago

              Your original post tells us to pronounce it the way she says it, but doesn’t actually show us how she says it.

              How did you expect us to pronounce it correctly if we haven’t heard her say it?

              • PapaStevesy@lemmy.world
                11·
                5 months ago

                Your original post tells us to pronounce it the way she says it, but doesn’t actually show us how she says it.

                Because I’m not her. You figured it out and found a video on your own, you clearly didn’t need me. Why would I know better than her how to pronounce it?

                How did you expect us to pronounce it correctly if we haven’t heard her say it?

                I didn’t. I presumed that if someone cared enough, they would find an appropriate video; that presumption was proven correct. But I never expected anyone to do anything, certainly not to get so incredibly butt-hurt by mild sarcasm.

    • Log in | Create account@lemmy.world
      4·
      5 months ago

      In British English, Trump means (1) the sound an elephant makes or (2) a fart, particularly a noisy one. If you trump your own horn it means you’re boastful and think of yourself higher than other people do.

      President Trump = President Fart.
      Still funny after all these years, despite the looming fascism.

    • Drunemeton@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1116·
      5 months ago

      She does have the truly AWFUL job of being a women of color that our nation is depending on to beat one of the worst once elected, twice impeached former presidents.

  • emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works
    16·
    5 months ago

    The Indian (Sanskrit) name is pronounced ka-ma-laa (meaning lotus), with no stress, and no gap in between the syllables. The first two 'a’s are pronounced like the ‘u’ in rum, while the last is the same sound but longer (so like the ‘a’ in calm).

    The US Presidential candidate’s name is pronounced the way she likes, which in this case is closer to ko-ma-laa.

    • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
      56·
      5 months ago

      Every word has stress. You probably mean the first phoneme is stressed. And the “rum” sound you’re looking for is called the “schwa”

      • Paraneoptera@sopuli.xyz
        6·
        5 months ago

        Not in classical Sanskrit. Vedic Sanskrit had pitch accent, which had been lost by the classical Sanskrit era. English has stress accent. But many languages do not have stress accent, and either have pitch accent or syllables are not accented at all.

      • emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works
        3·
        5 months ago

        Every word has stress.

        In most Indian languages, most words are unstressed. There is a distinction between long and short syllables, but that comes from vowel length, not stress. A few words (like him-AA-la-ya) do have stress, but this is the exception and usually happens due to conjugation.

        You probably mean the first phoneme is stressed.

        No, kamala is unstressed.

        And the “rum” sound you’re looking for is called the “schwa”

        Yes.

  • Joenocide Biden@lemmy.mlEnglish
    153·
    5 months ago

    /kəmələ/ is how it is said. Those weird gyphs are IPA symbols, not sure if they’re part of any European languages that uses Latin as their alphabet.

    The issue with English is that it is a non-phonetic language. In English, ‘a’ can sound either like æ, eɪ, ɑː, ɔː, etc (refer IPA). The specific ‘a’ sound in Kamala has a name, by the way - it is called schwa (ə).

    I’m pretty sure a French or a German wouldn’t butcher this name, as their alphabets are pretty consistent in phonetic pronunciation - they just map fine with Indian languages, like take for example, Hindi - ‘a’ -> अ, ‘i’ -> इ, ‘e’ -> ए, ‘o’ -> ओ, etc.

    In Devanagari, it is written as कमला (ka + ma + laa), which is the feminine form of कमल (ka + ma + la). In Hindi, every varnmala by default has a short ‘a’ - adding a ा turns this into a longer ‘aa’ sound (क् + अ -> क (ka), क् + आ -> का (kaa)).

    Yes, I know that Kamala is probably half-Dravidian (Tamil, or Telugu, I think), but it really doesn’t matter a lot - sure, there’s some differences between Indo-Aryan and Dravidian languages, one of which being the schwa deletion, but apart from that, most letters are almost similar in function.

    • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
      10·
      5 months ago

      It’s 'cause we took the letters from Latin, which actually had 5 vowels, and applied it to a Germanic language which, in my dialect, has 17.

      We also standardised the spelling in patches hundreds of years ago, and never updated it, but that’s a sort of separate issue.

      • The Octonaut@mander.xyz
        71·
        5 months ago

        My friend, Americans do not care about how words are pronounced in the original language/location.

      • Wilzax@lemmy.world
        62·
        5 months ago

        That’s not how she pronounces her name, so it’s not her name.

        The Vice president of the United States is named Kamala (/ˈkɑːmələ/) Harris (/ˈhærɪs/)

        • Joenocide Biden@lemmy.mlEnglish
          34·
          5 months ago

          To somehow suggest that the sound of अ (ə) becomes आ (ɑː) is ridiculous. It’s not कामला (jaundice, billrubin), it’s कमला (lotus, Goddess Lakshmi). Use an IPA reader to check the sound you’ve provided, versus mine.

          • Wilzax@lemmy.world
            102·
            5 months ago

            Her name isn’t कमला, it’s Kamala. It’s written in the latin alphabet on her American birth certificate. She pronounces her own name as ˈkɑːmələ. It doesn’t matter what the similar-sounding common name from a different country used by different people is. Her name is Kamala. ˈkɑːmələ.

            • Joenocide Biden@lemmy.mlEnglish
              23·
              5 months ago

              It’s written in the latin alphabet on her American birth certificate

              So is mine and every citizen born in India, a non-English country. Your point being that people get to decide how to butcher other’s name because it was *checks character* written in Latin?

              She pronounces her own name as ˈkɑːmələ.

              PoC immigrants are forced to anglicize their names. Koreans and Chinese folks are forced to have a alternative English name. Indians are forced to deal with butchered pronounciations, or pick a shorter nickname. But hey, thanks for being a part of the problem.

              It doesn’t matter what the similar-sounding common name from a different country used by different people is.

              It does, and this behaviour speaks volume about how much you respect other people and their culture. John isn’t pronounced as Yohn in non-English speaking areas, right?

              • Wilzax@lemmy.world
                71·
                5 months ago

                First of all, If we anglicized her name, we would get 'kəmɑːlə, not ˈkɑːmələ, so that argument makes no sense. English has a tendancy to stress the second to last syllable of a name or word, and shift the vowel there accordingly. I will admit that you’re right in that the birth certificate thing isn’t the best example of what determines a name. Trans people, or anyone else who wishes to change their name from what their parents wrote at birth, are completely valid in their new name. But the point I was making is that she hasn’t embraced the Devanagari spelling of her name, the way she has the Latin spelling. She’s chosen a pronunciation of that spelling for herself, and been vocal about how she wants it said. Respect it, or shut up.

                Second, she’s not an immigrant. She was born in the US and is an American citizen by birth, which is (unfortunately) a requirement to run for president. Her name may originate from a similar sounding name from a different language, but that similar sounding name is not her name. The experiences of people who were happy with their name and were later forced to change it is a separate issue. To insist she change her name to fit your perception of what she should be called is exactly the thing you’re chastising me for doing. Which again, I’m not. I’m supporting her in the name she chooses to use.

                Third, “John” is another example that actually proves why your argument is wrong. It comes from the old hebrew יְהוֹחָנָן‎. But as other cultures adopted the name and changed it to be their own over hundreds of years, small changes turned it into Ιωάννης in Greek, Johannes in Latin, Jean in French, and eventually John in modern English. Why is the same thing happening to Kamala such an issue for you?

                Her name is what she says her name is, and the circumstances that led her to choose her name are MORE VALID than your opinion of what her name should be. End of discussion.

                https://youtu.be/GVGfzbP7WBY

                • Joenocide Biden@lemmy.mlEnglish
                  13·
                  5 months ago

                  Trans people, or anyone else who wishes to change their name from what their parents wrote at birth, are completely valid in their new name.

                  Whataboutism to twist and call me transphobic? Why do you mention trans people here? ‘Pronouns’ and ‘pronounce’ have nothing in common.

                  Third, “John” is another example that actually proves why your argument is wrong. It comes from the old hebrew יְהוֹחָנָן‎. But as other cultures adopted the name and changed it to be their own over hundreds of years, small changes turned it into Ιωάννης in Greek, Johannes in Latin, Jean in French, and eventually John in modern English. Why is the same thing happening to Kamala such an issue for you?

                  Because that change was organic, and took hundreds of years? Are you going to conveniently ignore that?

                  Her name is what she says her name is

                  …while ignoring all the nuances, that is, her conditioning by a society that has taught her to internalize hatred towards her own identity? Attitude like that of your is the reason why second and third generation immigrants suffer from the pain of having a cultural disconnect, making them feel like an alien - being discriminated in their own country, and being a foreigner to their own culture. And now, you’re trying to gaslight a native speaker?

                  It does not take a genius to look at the butchered transliteration(s) - (funny how there’s no agreement on a singular pronounciation?) versus the original pronunciation on Wiktionary.

          • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
            61·
            5 months ago

            I’m an American who lives in Germany. The name my parents chose begins with [dʒ], but I haven’t introduced or thought of myself like that in years. My name therefore begins with [j].

            It’s really cool that you’re informed about the language that her name stems from, but that’s not the name she uses.