On every thread or post, if you click on more and activity, you’ll get the info.
I personally find this to be a good things, I’ve seen people using downvote way too easily. I like the idea that we need to be somehow accountable for those mechanism.
edit: It could be somehow improved to have an option to let this info only available between concerned users.
edit edit: I think that up/downvote info shouldn’t be public, but kept private between the users involved. we need to address this privacy issue.
Hard disagree on the idea that upvote/downvote history being displayed constantly is a good thing - it seems like it’s just inviting harassment. Should be opt-out at a minimum, and preferably opt-in.
In a small community it’s probably fine; but it will get super toxic with big communities or abusive mods.
This is where I see there being an issue as well.
There’s also potential for harassment due to people seeing opposing political opinions. As an example - My wife was once the target of harassment by a number of users on Reddit for days for warning people about an anti-abortion protest that was displaying graphic imagery. Much easier for those kind of people to coordinate harassment of others if they can easily see records of upvoting pro-choice or downvoting anti-choice posts/comments.
Some people don’t understand the implications of making the votes public.
Any tool like “Kbin enhancement suite” will quickly scan for who downvoted you and will allow you to track the person who disrespected you by downvoting you. It won’t be “micro-harassement”, it will be wide scale, automated harassment, systematic retaliation. An active hate list, basically. Imagine the equivalent of a “the_donald” centralizing a database of the people to downvote or harass based on their public vote.
I think the best course of action is to no vote at all as long as the votes are not secret.
Public voting is inherent in how the fediverse is structured, it’s impossible for it to both allow upvotes/downvotes and also keep those votes secret. A particular instance could hide them from the interface but any other instance that was federated with it would be able to see them anyway so if you’re worried about stalkers then that’s not going to change anything.
About the only way I could think of do “solve” this would be to use a pretty sophisticated cryptography technique called zero-knowledge proofs, and given how many people are already having problems with the complexities of federation that’s probably not a good path to follow right now.
my god, the most exhausting people online are gonna love this
can’t wait to get harassed cause I won’t dEbAtE why I clicked the “your post is garbage” button and cite sources that aren’t my eyes or rising bile
I need to remember this. I don’t want to upvote NSFW content and have all my kinks publically attached to this username.
I had a friend once who was seemingly unaware that Instagram made all his likes public. It was entertaining enough, but maybe not ideal from his perspective. It felt like I ended up knowing him a little better than I really wanted to.
Hmm, yeah, I don’t like this at all. I can see some benefits but I really don’t want to have to worry about what I’m voting on. If I downvote some lunatic I don’t want them being able to harass me about it. And it feels way too social-media-y for me. This could be a dealbreaker for a lot of people if there isn’t at least a way to opt out.
I agree on all points especially about the social media feel. I don’t want instagram or facebook where it shows so and so liked/disliked/reacted to something.
I think this forces something that nobody paid attention to in Reddiquete, which was that if you don’t like something, you just shouldn’t vote on it. Downvotes were supposed to be for when something actively didn’t belong, not just something you didn’t agree with. Of course, another way to do that would be to just get rid of the Reduce button entirely.
I mainly used downvotes on trolls and other bad-faith comments, people just being purposefully annoying in the comments. Exactly the kind of people I don’t want to engage with, just downvote and move on.
@jake_eric I see the opposite. Making votes and especially downvotes private facilitates a kind of micro-harassement by individuals or organized groups.
I see where you’re coming from, but on the flip side, I think it empowers the bad-faith trolls who have way too much time and energy to get into fights. On Reddit, if I see someone just being a general asshole, I’ll downvote and move on. If that person can see that I’ve done that, I’m not gonna feel as comfortable doing that, lest they retaliate somehow.
You could turn it around and say that it empowers non-asshole users to fight back as well, but the assholes tend to have more energy to get into fights, that’s part of the reason why they’re being assholes online in the first place.
I can tell you I’ve absolutely never wished Reddit votes were shared knowledge. Even if it would occasionally be useful information, it’s just not worth it for me.
The fediverse is always ahead on things like moderation, so I don’t forsee downvote harassers becoming a thing here. Eventually, you’ll be able to easily block/report/ban them.
I’m not even sure allowing an opt out would be technically feasible without some big work. Your votes have to be sent to other servers to keep counts consistent and you can’t control whether that server shows or hides votes. So any option you set on your own instance won’t have an effect outside your instance.
Apart from the issue of harassers, I don’t see a good reason for hiding votes. Showing votes might help prevent brigades or similar vote harassment (e.g. user always downvotes another user they don’t like).
I’m still figuring out how this works. Does Lemmy also make your votes public? It doesn’t seem to me like it does (though I may be wrong) and that’s part of the fediverse too, no?
I don’t see anywhere in the lemmy UI where you can see votes, but I’m sure there’s ways to get the votes through the API.
So maybe the solution is don’t worry about votes being technically public but hide them from the UI, but I don’t think even that solution is required.Well, I’m sure Reddit tracked who voted on what behind the scenes too, sites have to or else you can just vote multiple times on multiple devices/apps/browsers. I’m not worried about that really, since it’s unavoidable. Making them public is my issue.
I think the point is for the votes to be federated, the instance has to know who has actually voted. The issue being that information is then on the instance the post is hosting, and due to how posts propagate, there’s nothing stopping another instance putting who voted on what front and center, and just pulling that data from the host instance.
Ah, I see the point there. That a new instance with a different UI could put them up.
I’m certainly no tech expert, but if it’s about the API, then how did third-party Reddit apps work with it? The votes definitely synced between different versions of Reddit, could a third-party Reddit app have been made that showed votes publicly? If not, what was the system behind that, and could it work here? Again, no idea, there may be a very good reason why what I’m thinking wouldn’t work, but I dunno what it would be.
I’m far from an expert on this sort of thing, but I would wager that the only voting data available through Reddit’s API is the current number of up and downvotes, the overall vote score, and whether the account requesting the information has up or down voted, for any given post / comment.
It can do that because the data is centralised, and every account exists in one place, whereas federation has to say “[email protected] upvoted this comment, and so did [email protected]”, because there’s nowhere to store that data centrally, other than the post itself.
I understand what you’re saying, but in the broader scheme of the internet we should have the ability to dictate what of our data and actions get broadcast and therefore able to be mined by advertisers or other nefarious entities. This is actually a hugely important idea in fighting the corporatization of the internet. We need to stop letting mega corps build profiles on us based on our clicks.
I totally agree, but I find it refreshing to make people accountable. Maybe there is a solution to keep it somehow private between users?
I still don’t really understand what your dissatisfied with. You said something about people downvoting too much? Say you see someone who is downvoting in a way you don’t like. What is your recourse? Why do you want that information?
If I see someone downvoting all my thread or post, I’ll block them. Anonymity is not always bringing the best out of people.
People are allowed to disagree with things, although I understand if someone is just spamming the entirety of a thread with downvotes for no appreciable reason.
I’m in agreement with @eatmoregreenfood, that displaying your votes should be opt in, if available on the front end at all.
On a social basis, I don’t think it matters; Whilst it would be preferable that someone explains why they disagree with something (assuming it is actually a disagreement, and not just malicious), I don’t think anyone should be fearful of downvoting because the OP might call them out on it and expect them to explain, or forever see nothing from that user again. Disagreement isn’t inherently negative.I’m sorry but we talked about silly things being posted in an other thread, we exchanged our point of view and at the end, you literally downvoted all of my silly intervention in the thread. so you do you but that is exactly this kind of behaviour I’m not looking forward here.
you could also argue that it would be a shame that anyone feels fearful to post because of people downvoting whatever it not pleasing them.
for me downvoting is a strong statement, not to be taken lightly. it can be part of building an very unwelcoming environment and also shaping the discours of users in only one direction.
please let’s try to take what’s the best of the fediverse here as well, be kind with each other if not excellent.
And your post is currently up to 17 downvotes. Seems like people pretty much proved the point you were making. I think that is kinda sad, but not entirely unpredictable. I’m still new here. I used reddit, sometimes I really liked it. But it wasn’t perfect. I see this as a chance to improve. If we want to. I agree with what you said, I don’t very often downvote. We will see what happens.
yes it’s pretty ironic.
Myself, and a handful of users by the looks of it, disagreed with the content of some of your posts, or thought it wasn’t relevant / contributing to the discussion. I certainly didn’t downvote the entirety of your contribution to that thread, and I don’t intend for you to think it’s a personal attack.
If you’d like to have a discourse on why I downvoted 4 of your comments, I, like many others aren’t looking for the ‘redditification’ of another site, regardless of how similar the premise might be, and that’s what I felt those comments were promoting, particularly ‘gesundheit’. I understand wanting things to be ‘just as good as they were’, etc., but this is new, things can be better, and I personally don’t want to see the site become reddit 2.0 just because there’s been a big influx of users after the blackout started. You’re entitled to want kbin.social to become something else, of course, and that’s arguably what the voting system is there for.
you shouldn’t assume that much about my intention tho. and I rather talk to you and argue that being told to “shut if up”, even tho you didn’t say it, it’s how a downvote feels.
I certainly don’t want kbin to be a reddit 2.0. but id like people to feel free to express themself in all matter, not only being serious. We don’t have to agree about that, it’s ok. But one thing that I really wish would stay on reddit is this downvote culture.
You have a pretty ironclad point. A company having access to years of that from any user would be a huge boon. Which is upsetting, because I viewed it as a helpful development in terms of group dynamics. Not for blacklisting purposes, which they also run the risk of turning into, but because, knowing your name is up there, you’re more likely to mull over whether something is really actually bad enough to deserve the downvote and throwing them around willy-nilly is a great habit to break yourself of.
If you can’t downvote something without being called out by name, you’re stuck admitting it really didn’t matter all that much, or hopefully explaining why you dislike something in words. Which does not happen nearly as often as it should. Forcing people to own up to them could curb the tendency to downvote things into oblivion
Thinking it over, I’m forced to admit the cons outweigh it, but I don’t have to like it.
If that company can’t serve ads to you or connect you to a profile of a real person, then I’m not sure it really matters.
A company having access to years of that from any user would be a huge boon.
This could be said for any bit of information you post publicly. You don’t think they can learn the same info from your posts? I agree it is a problem but I don’t think private up/down votes address it.
Im doing (“did”) a lot more of up/downvoting than writing longer replys to different topics.
It should be much easier for a company to scan a wide array of users on their voting behaviour than reading their posts one by one.I highly doubt it would be a human reading the posts.
maybe i didnt express correct what i mean…
Lets say after 5 years of kbin running and lots of user interactions.
-It should be really easy to pick out 50 or 100 (for example politcal) threads and filter all the up and downvotes. After that you could identify for most of the users which direction they are leaning.
-in the same scenario its much more work to read (or train a AI or bot or something)all the posts to interpret what point of view all these users have.I think you underestimate how easy it is to determine the “mood” of a comment, but let me perhaps come at this from a different angle: even if kbin did as you request and made up/down votes hidden, there is nothing that says a server that is federated with kbin has to hide that information, as well.
It’s probably best to just assume that any information you give in public will be public, and act accordingly.
Huh thats scary.
Im honestly not that deep into the AI theme so im not really able to recognise which of all this AI things are real and which are more wishfull thinking or marketing.
Its fediverse. The only way to verify upvotes and downvotes and limit them to 1 per user is for there to be a record. The only way to avoid that situation is to not Federate upvotes/downvotes.
Being concerned about boosts is literally a misunderstanding of what a boost is. The purpose of a boost is to mimic retweet functionality. It’s to share that same thing with all of your followers. It would serve no purpose if it weren’t public.
One platform can hide them, but others would still be able to see them so someone with bad intentions could still just look it up somewhere else
Ah, yeah. That makes me want the ability to undo a boost or have a confirmation for boosts even more.
you can undo a boost by clicking on it a seconde time, no? and you’ll have a confirmation with the term
boostbeing underscored
I think it’s a good thing to show the person behind the downvote based on the principles of transparency and sharing information freely. If corporations will take advantage of that data, they are the problem and the solution should reflect that.
If a person wants to participate in the discussion by either commenting or voting, they shouldn’t be doing it behind a veil of anonymity.
Isn’t anonymous voting the cornerstone of democracy?
the cornerstone of democracy is education.
Oof. It feels like every new social media platform insists on replicating the mistakes of their predecessors. You’d think by now there would be an established body of design patterns for social media. This looks like it might be relevant, even though it’s quite old now.
edit: it’s also interesting that only downvotes count for “reputation points”, so anyone who raises their heads above the parapet in a contentious thread is at risk of instantly having a negative reputation [edit 2: QED]. I have no idea what effect that will have though…
kbin does let you hide your own followings and magazine subscriptions, so my guess is it wouldn’t be hard to implement hiding your up/downvotes. Ernest the developer is almost certainly more concerned with handling site traffic and stability first, but you could always add an Issue to the bug tracker.
I read on here somewhere a day ago that boosts count positively to your reputation.
the reputation point mechanism is broken right now. https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/issues/80
Hypothesis confirmed by experiment. Enjoy the boost.
So basically a boost acts like a “super-upvote” (in addition to acting like a share). Man, this is going to be interesting.
EDIT: See replies below for more details.
Is this how boost is intended or just part of the broken system while things get under control?
I know like on mastodon, boost is basically retooting. Would me boosting something show somewhere on my profile? I guess I can look at your profile after this and see if the boost shows up on yours lol.
in kbin, boosts and upvotes are like boosts and favorites in mastodon/calckey. but in here, boosts also ranking up the thread in the top category.
the reputation point is broken tho, because the mechanism behind boost and upvote have been modified/switched a few days ago, but the reputation point code not updated yet.
New to kbin and don’t use Mastodon yet. If a boost is a super-upvote, why wouldn’t you boost everything when you voted it up?
Edit: found the FAQ: boosts are sent to followers in timeline/feed.
boosts are like retweet. it improves the visibility of a thread. it’s like sharing it with all your followers + promoting it to the top category.
I boost content that I want to be seen. I upvote content as a kind gesture for the author. I downvote content that is really not appropriate but just not enough to be reported.
I managed to garner a negative reputation score through one satirical link. I am not motivated to post more at this point honestly.
go check my profile, it will make you feel better 🤣
