• Cethin@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Oh, yes. Actual leftists that somehow support every action of a particular nation. Actual leftists who don’t mind government control of information and gives incentives for supporting them publicly. Actual leftists that are ok with some people being removed from society because of the groups they belong to. Yep, totally sounds like actual leftists to me…

    • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Actual leftists that are ok with some people being removed from society because of the groups they belong to.

      Some people should be removed from society based on the groups they belong to. Nazis, for example. Pedophiles, probably. And definitely people who put pineapple on pizza.

      • Cethin@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        No, they should be removed from society based on what they want to do. I don’t think the children of nazis should be removed just because they’re a part of that group.

        • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Ideological belief is not a trait that is automatically passed on to children. Children of Liberals aren’t automatically liberals. Children of conservatives aren’t automatically conservatives.

          • Cethin@lemmy.zip
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Yes, which is why they shouldn’t be removed for being a part of a group. They are a part of it as children though.

              • Cethin@lemmy.zip
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                No, but when I was a child I would still consider myself part of their social group. Children don’t have the autonomy for anything else.

    • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Actual leftists who don’t mind government control of information

      Yes, actual leftists. I’m going to quote to you some Marx. This is from Chapter 2 of the Communist Manifesto which is basically a 30 page pamphlet, I suggest you read it. I want you to pay particular attention to number 6.

      The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.

      Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionising the mode of production.

      These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.

      Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

      1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

      2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

      3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

      4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

      5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

      6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

      7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

      8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

      9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

      10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c.

      As you can see, nothing here is at odds with that.

      Actual leftists that are ok with some people being removed from society because of the groups they belong to.

      What groups? If you’re about to use Adrian Zenz as a source you are a joke. If you’re instead claiming that working to abolish the existence of the bourgeoisie is a bad thing you are a clown.

    • nohaybanda [he/him]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      The topic at hand is Western media drumming up support for the US’s next foreign policy disaster. The same way they did for Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Vietnam and so, so many others. I would have called this bullshit before I became a communist. You don’t need Marxist theory to see through the bullshit, just object permanence.