I can’t get inside the head of any of the crazies who go on a rampage and shoot up a school or a house of worship, but it gives me comfort to think that such people now know that if they shoot a CEO instead of a classroom full of children they will be regarded as having made a positive contribution to society. I really hope school shootings will go down after this, and I think they may well.
I know a school shooting up which wouldn’t be a huge crime. Back then, that is. Now I can’t be certain.
“A-are we the baddies?”
Its the same reality as before except they realize how close they are to the edge separating the game where they abuse us from the part where they don’t get to play the game.
All of us play the game daily…go to work, do some good stuff, come home, eat, sleep. The good stuff. Why do we get so little and they get so much?
There’s a storm coming, Mr. Wayne. You and your friends better batten down the hatches, because when it hits, you’re all gonna wonder how you ever thought you could live so large and leave so little for the rest of us.
Selina Kyle
US income distribution is on the same level as fucking Russia. Bring back the tax brackets from the 1950’s and 60’s.
Really? It feels worse than Russia.
You haven’t been to Russia.
I haven’t been to America either
It’s different people. Those in US still own real things and do something with them to get such incomes.
Those in Russia steal.
In other words, in USA connections are means to help actual power and tools to actual power. In Russia it’s the other way around, actual power is all dependent on connections, which ultimately all go to one ruling group.
It’s nowhere as bad. But it will get as bad as Russia, of course, if Americans don’t learn something.
Hahaha. Just because it’s “legal” here doesn’t mean it’s not stealing. Taking billions in insurance premiums and then spending it to lobby to make it harder and harder to qualify to receive money for a claim is “legal” but so unethical and morally bankrupt that a guy just killed a CEO because of it and the entire country just shrugged and said “Yeah that’s about right.”
It’s legal in Russia too at this point. That’s not what I mean. Wealthy people in Russia own nothing really - they are just pockets of Putin. Less wealthy people are just elements of various mechanisms, legal and not, able to steal according to their status. Less wealthy than them - those who do honest business, but pretend the competition is not stifled by various invisible limitations by connections. The lower it gets, the more it is like normal stuff, but one can feel that something is wrong even arriving from Yerevan to Moscow, and Armenia is quite oligarch-owned too.
In Russia there are no CEOs to kill. People in such positions are kinda normal and everyone knows where real power lies, and those holding it can’t be so easily caught.
I misunderstood the core of what you were saying. Thank you for explaining it like this.
Dude, you have a self selecting Elite in the US and most other countries. It is the same shit. How many “rags to riches” stories still happen? And these ultimately also involve the right connections at the right time.
Look at the lauded “started in a Garage” tech billionaires.
Bill Gates?
His father was a prominent lawyer, and his mother served on the board of directors of First Interstate BancSystem and United Way of America. Gates’s maternal grandfather J. W. Maxwell was a national bank president.
At age 13, he enrolled in the private Lakeside prep school.[14][15] When he was in eighth grade, the Mothers’ Club at the school used proceeds from Lakeside School’s rummage sale to buy a Teletype Model 33 ASR terminal and a block of computer time on a General Electric (GE) computer for the students.[16] Gates took an interest in programming the GE system in BASIC, and he was excused from math classes to pursue his interest.
Zuckerberg? Haward student
Bezos? Princeton and then various banks, albeit his family background actually was lower/middle class.
Musk? Fucking apartheid mine owners.
No, I get how it’s in the USA. Matches your description. Still radically different from Russia.
“People are in disbelief that they would be making this kid into a hero,” he told Fortune.
Attending a conference for CEOs in New York this week, just blocks away from the site of the shooting, George found that many were shaken and deeply concerned by the reaction to Thompson’s killing. “They’re having plenty of meetings right now to discuss beefing up security,” he said of the business leaders, even as some question how much security coverage is enough. People are asking themselves, “‘What does that say about our society? Where’s our society going?’” George said.
So they’ve learned absolutely nothing.
Plenty of meetings to beef up security. How about plenty of meetings to understand how your greed has caused this? They sound one logical leap (that they are unwilling to make) away from understanding exactly what the problem is.
They managed to find one and only one CEO quote that reflected anything resembling self-awareness.
“When I was growing up, CEOs didn’t make millions more than everyone else in the company. I think we have to reflect on why there’s so much anger and do something about it.”
All I can think of is a TED talk I saw where the speaker had given some presentation to a bunch of billionaires and had some q&a, and one of them who had built a bunker for themselves asked him how they could prevent their security team from turning on them in the bunker.
The TED talk guy responded “Be kind to them?”
And the Billionaire said “But where does that end?”
I’ll try to find it so I can link it.
EDIT: Found it!
I’ll try to find it so I can link it.
Oh god please do.
I managed to find what I was thinking of, but it concludes with a totally different line about them than I remembered. I think @[email protected] is right, and the “where does that end?” quote might be from a segment in a Robert Evans podcast.
Thank you!
Wait! I found it! It was the same guy from the TED talk, but on a different podcast!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nS3-dQen-YM
relevant part at 4:20
also @[email protected]
You rock!
I’m pretty sure it was the same guy who did the “it could happen here podcast.” Then they were like, can we put shock collars on the security guards. Stuff like that.
Robert Evans? The man is a national treasure.
If you haven’t heard his miniseries “Behind the Police” (ironically a four episode special in a much longer running serial podcast called “Behind the Bastards” which is not only about police) I strongly recommend it.
EDIT: Found it!
Wow, that was actually an extremely insightful conversation. Thank you for going out of your way to share it!
That video was freakin amazing and insightful!
You should make this it’s own post so more people can spread it
I don’t think it was a ted talk, I’m pretty sure it was a seminar put on specifically by the billionaire class asking this guy how best to navigate societal collapse with their vast amount of resources.
This I believe was one of the exchanges at that event.
What’s incredible to me is that they don’t realize that societal collapse will render their resources more or less worthless. Their options are the same as everyone else’s: get a bug out plan, be ready to abandon all belongings, etc. What are you planning to do to keep your bunkers stocked past the first month? How will you pay your security if your banks are gone or your currency is worthless?
Exactly. These people don’t think rationally. They truly believe they’ll have a group of sycophants who will do anything they say because they had them all this time before.
When shit hits the fan, you need to be the only one with the keys to the shock collars. You need to basically become Batman.
Well they did learn one thing though
They finally learned how it is to be a high schooler, having to live under constant fear of murder. I can’t wait to watch C level execs having tondo active shooter drills where they have tonhude under bullet proof blankets.
Mind you, murder is bad, and this murder on this CEO was bad, no matter how you turn it. I don’t want to live in a world where murdering eachother is the only conversation left.
Having said that, it is very gratifying to finally see these out of touch assholes having to suffer the same fear as all little kids in America
Great points!
Mind you, murder is bad
Yes for sure.
and this murder on this CEO was bad, no matter how you turn it.
I don’t want to live in a world where murdering eachother is the only conversation left.
Me neither. Let’s see if they are ready for any other kind of conversation now. OP makes me think they aren’t. Let’s not forget this murder happened because of all the other murders.
Same for stealing.
A company steals millions from their employees? Silence.
A guy stealing from Walmart? Police force everywhere.
Yeah, you missed the point
Teo wrongs do not make a right. The murder of this CEO was still murder. This CEO indirectly murdered thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands and caused untold suffering. He was also apparently already on the hook for tax fraud and insider trading IIRC hearing in a news report earlier this week. He was a horrible man who should spend the remainder of his years behind bars.
That, unfortunately, is not the world we live in and I fully understand why he was shot. That doesn’t make it right, though. I don’t want to live in a world where you can be murdered without judges and juries and due process. We live in a civil society and that means that if you want it done right, everyone deserves a fair trial, even rapists, murderers or criminal CEO’s.
Yeah, I know that the US has a big issue with the justice system being damn near bullshit at this point, still doesn’t make anarchistic vigilante murdering an “okay” thing.
Do you want to live in a move civil society where everyone is treated equal, or do you prefer to live in a post civil society where it’s each for their own and we just murder those that we have a conflict with?
This murder of the CEO, as much as I understand it, is a step in the wrong direction. Maybe, just maybe, this will be the catalyst that will push society in the right direction and the US justice system will be overhauled and made fair for everyone and maybe the government will institute laws that will restrict what companies can do to make it fair for everyone… Doubtful, but maybe. Either way, it still is a step in the wrong direction and I do worry that the US is sliding off into a hellhole it will never be able to dig it self out of. This trump shit will inevitably make it easier for a few to abuse the rest. The few will control the news and narrative, and blame the leftz the immigrants, and at some point more on the left will start fighting instead of talking. Once the scale tips, there is no tipping back. Ask Yugoslavia how well that worked out for them. Oh yeah, millions of deaths later, it no longer exists.
How is that for a kind of conversation?
“Do you want to live in a move civil society where everyone is treated equal, or do you prefer to live in a post civil society where it’s each for their own and we just murder those that we have a conflict with?”
Oh, the first one, absolutely.
But we’re already living in the second one it’s simply obfuscated by an illusion of civility. When the violence is only directed downward, it’s somehow legal and civil, but when it’s directed upwards, they convince the public that it’s wrong.
Some of us disagree with that, and think that mass murderers should be punished even if the law won’t do its job.
If you think that we’re living in an anarchy where it’s each for themselves, then you really need to get outside more
Elysium
Have been thinking about that movie quite a bit since all this went down, but don’t remember it in great detail. Might be worth a rewatch.
Because CEOs are a symptom.
The problem is our investment economy that focuses only on the stock prices continually going up. It’s literally an unsustainable system.
If a CEO puts their personal safety over the investors, the company gets a new CEO.
They’re not the one really making the worst decisions, they’re the ones who agreed to take a shitton of money to be the face of the company and take all the blame.
CEOs don’t get paid for the work they do, they get paid to be the fall guy.
Still absolutely shit people who deserve zero sympathy, but they’re not the real problem, just a symptom
Yep, we have a word for continual uninhibited growth - it’s called cancer.
If a CEO puts their personal safety over the investors, the company gets a new CEO.
How many times will they be willing to get a new CEO before they make changes? How many times will someone accept promotion into that position? I wouldn’t take Brian Thompson’s job for any amount of money right now, would you?
How many times will they be willing to get a new CEO before they make changes
They’d do it on the daily if it makes them more money…
What do you think a CEO actually does?
They listen to what high level management says is best, and then just does whatever brings the stock price up fastet disregarding everything else.
There’s a reason they all get golden parachutes. None of them care past the last board meeting
The “what does this say about society” question bugs the shit out of me. It means that our society is sick and tired of being the only rich nation in the world where getting sick or injured will bankrupt you. If these people were truly concerned about the good of society, they’d quit sucking us dry for every dollar that they can and would advocate for a better system.
It also bugs the shit out of me because how long have children been being murdered in school in a mass shooting epidemic, but now that the rich are being killed that’s what makes them ask this? Our society has been in bad shape for a long time
We live in a society!!
"…
We are quoting anonymously those who did respond, to allow them the freedom to give us their most candid answers. These have been edited for length and clarity. Some have previously been reported by Fortune.
**Personal responses to the killing **
— “The disconnect between public perception and personal humanity has been striking, with some commentary bordering on dehumanizing. This highlights the critical need to humanize leadership and address the pressures faced in high-visibility roles.”
— “My challenge is keeping employees engaged. How do you maintain a sense of purpose if you think your customers hate you?”
— “I have to wonder if the demonization of corporate America and the wealthy over the last four years planted a mind virus in the assassin’s mind.”
— “If you walk by the place where it happened, it’s business as usual, which gives me some perspective. This was a random killing by a mentally ill person. Let’s not turn a tragic incident into a trend. Most people don’t hate CEOs. They don’t care about CEOs. They have bigger issues to care about.”
…"
Wow. ‘demonization’, ‘need to humanize leadership’… Are these human people that were interviewed? Did these human persons speak anyone outside their immediate circle in the last three decades? I can hardly believe that, this is so out of touch that these folk may have never been touched by anything in their lives. I wasn’t prepared for this speedrun worldrecord to definitively prove total lack of empathy and understanding.
Most people don’t hate CEOs. They don’t care about CEOs. They have bigger issues to care about [that the CEOs created for them to distract them].
In this current discussion, people are trying to open each others eyes about that silent part.
Also: Most people don’t hate CEOs. But we do think CEOs have no right to be making more than a thousand times what an honest working person should make, actually sacrificing lives for their profit. And when that kind of stealing and mass murder is sanctioned by the law, then what are the options?
I think its possible most people hate CEOs. Sort of like hating politicians, surely theres some good ones but on the whole, awful people.
If most people hated CEOs, that would mean most people were capable of hating, which means we’re even more fucked in this world than I thought we were. I don’t hate. I see that some people are a threat to society and need to be kept from harming the latter - but I recognize that for people to be capable of atrocities, something in their brain development has gone terribly wrong at some point in the past. So I don’t hate them, in the same way I don’t hate a virus that kills people - while still recognizing the need for a cure / vaccine.
Hate is just an emotion. Emotions aren’t permanent, they are tied to moments. Surely theres situations you can think of that would at least cause a fleeting sensation of hate. Everyone has to deal with their emotions and thoughts, and we dont always get to pick which emotions and thoughts present themselves.
The only expectation we should have is that people at least try to improve their reactions to thoughts and emotions they would rather not have.
I dont believe for a second you are truly without hate all the time, thats not possible.
I dont believe for a second you are truly without hate all the time, thats not possible.
Well luckily I am not bound by what you believe :) I - figuratively - hate financial / economical / political systems - and I might occasionally say “I hate that <person>”, only to correct myself right after with “no, I despise them”. But I don’t feel hate towards anyone. Because hate ruins my own day and our time on this planet is too precious for that. Especially - why would I give any asshole free real estate in my mind by preoccupying myself with them when they clearly do not deserve the attention?
I’m saying that moment before you correct yourself, you do feel hate. You choose to disregard hate, thats not the same as not having it at all. Similar to disregarding pain vs not feeling it at all.
Not even then. I correct myself because “I hate xy” is a figure of speech that I wrongly use.
The woke mind virus lmao
Did these human persons speak anyone outside their immediate circle in the last three decades?
After late 90s and early 00s it seems that this has become rare.
First “speaking outside your immediate circle” has moved into interwebs. Second the interwebs have changed to no longer inconvenience those who don’t want to see contradicting worldviews.
Just saying. CEOs are, of course, more isolated than many people. But their delusions are not unique by any measure.
The limit of 4 years is what’s making me laugh.
Because of course everything is tied to who the president is, in their mind. Democrats bad for business, mmm-kay?
“When I was growing up, CEOs didn’t make millions more than everyone else in the company. I think we have to reflect on why there’s so much anger and do something about it.”, said someone who will do absolutely nothing about it.
This was a random killing by a mentally ill person. Let’s not turn a tragic incident into a trend. Most people don’t hate CEOs. They don’t care about CEOs. They have bigger issues to care about.
How fucking tone-deaf is this person? The bigger issues that we care about are things like going bankrupt from getting sick or injured. Those issues are directly caused by their CEOs. This wasn’t a random killing, which is why people are so happy about it.
Soooo out of touch it’s hilarious.
Please, go ahead and continue to show how little understanding you have for the common man, by all means.
The bigger issues that we care about are things like going bankrupt from getting sick or injured. Those issues are directly caused by their CEOs.
I think that depends very much on where you live. Here in Germany we don’t usually go bankrupt from getting sick. I at least worry much more about the climate catastrophe or right wing propaganda on social media. Issues that in a funny coincidence are also caused directly by CEOs.
— “My challenge is keeping employees engaged. How do you maintain a sense of purpose if you think your customers hate you?”
Your customers DO hate you. It’s not just what you think, it’s reality.
Maybe rather than trying to maintain a sense of purpose for what you’re doing, you should take a step back and question WHAT you’re doing, and whether it has any purpose in society at all other than making you money?
if you think your customers hate you?”
They were under the impression that the customers didn’t hate them? How out of touch are they?
“I keep taking more from them and they don’t like it?!”
Hate is the cost of squeezing those extra dollars. Extra profit isn’t free, they’re lowering another game slider for it, and that slider is how much your customers support your actions. They’re only still around as a customer because all the other options have been bought out or run out of business.
If you walk by the place where it happened, it’s business as usual, which gives me some perspective. This was a random killing by a mentally ill person. Let’s not turn a tragic incident into a trend. Most people don’t hate CEOs. They don’t care about CEOs. They have bigger issues to care about
I hope this guy gets it next. How fucking out of touch can you be that you dismiss this as “a mentally ill person doing mentally ill things”? What a fucking loser!
I love the last line. They do indeed, like how to pay for chemotherapy treatment after their claim got denied.
Fuck em
Just wanted to comment on these two.
“I have to wonder if the demonization of corporate America and the wealthy over the last four years planted a mind virus in the assassin’s mind.”
Fuck you! You have the mind virus. A virus which leads you to believe that the rest of us should suffer because you’re better. Eat shit anonymous CEO.
“If you walk by the place where it happened, it’s business as usual, which gives me some perspective. This was a random killing by a mentally ill person. Let’s not turn a tragic incident into a trend. Most people don’t hate CEOs. They don’t care about CEOs. They have bigger issues to care about.”
Then light some candles and put out some flowers you fucking cowardly parasite. Hold a vigil, gather your CEO buddies and sing Kumbaya. Be sure and post the date online so all of the healthcare CEOs know when to be there.
Most people don’t hate CEOs.
The public reaction to this event disagrees with this claim.
Social media is used by a tiny minority of the population.
Thinking you can extrapolate what you see on social media into “the public” at large is the chief reason people on Reddit and Lemmy were so baffled when Harris got her ass kicked in the election.
Be more mindful of what’s true of “the public”, and what’s true only in the echo chamber.
95%+ of posts and comments have been in support of a murderer, barely any opposition, even on more conservative social media like Facebook… Sure, the general public is different, but even if it’s 60%, that’s still a lot…
Even if it’s 40%, that’s still a lot lol
That’s literally like take 10 people off the street, and 4 people agree. It could be 60%, it could be 80%, etc.
This was at the end of the article Forbes presented me with:
Do you have what it takes to make it to the C-suite? Learn how Fortune 500 CEOs overcame surprising obstacles on the road to the corner office…
I don’t want to make it to the C-suite. That sounds awful. I want to help specific people solve problems they have helping other people.
Do other people think like this? Like they want a corner office and a big car? Am I that fucking abnormal that this sounds like a death sentence to me?
They’re calvinists believing: the greater the wealth, the greater the morality. Taking it to its extremes is the point as is the cruel structural violence.
Do you have what it takes which is also known as inherited wealth
Actually a lot of “normal” people do want that.
And many even not very “normal” people may easily lose their mind thinking they have the opportunity to become powerful.
Maybe I’m more spider than man but with great power comes great responsibility and I recognize I’m not mature enough for that.
Yes, but you are not in a situation where you can have that great power and can’t be certain until then.
I’ve had a small amount of power and the responsibilities were enough that I never want any power again.
I don’t want that. I want enough to live my life and nothing extravagant.
Every time I get a promotion I’ve had more and more distance between me and doing the actual work I get paid a lot more but I hate it. I have very little job satisfaction because the time scale of the things I’m working on has gone from days to months. Most of the time I just feel like I’m getting nothing done and it’s incredibly frustrating.
You guys are getting promotions?
Only because I fell into a role that was perfectly suited for my personality so it was easy for me to excel at it. Then my name got around and people started to assume because I was so good at that I must be good at other things too. Which has been pretty hit or miss…
Lemmy tends to have skewed perception of such things. Truth is, most people want money. As much as possible in as short time as possible. There’s a multitude of reasons, from wanting a luxurious life, to simply wanting to not have to worry about the money or to retire early, but pretty much everyone wants money. Look at how many folk join the lottery.
Hell, most of Lemmy wants student debt to be forgotten. That’s gaining money, just in reverse order. Same with distributed wealth etc.
World spins around money, no matter how you look at it.
But sure as hell I wouldn’t like to be in a place I hate to earn it. :/
Truth is, most people want money. As much as possible in a
It’s not unreasonable to aspire to not having money worries, the stess of it is literally a medical issue eg not having to worry about meeting mortgae or rent payments, a mechanical breakdown on a car, or paying for a dental emergency, a broken limb, or buying a new pair of shoes, replacing your laptop etc.
Much past that is based on envy and that’s where it becomes toxic with wealth inequality. It’s human nature to feel envy, you can fight it but its inate in all humans, the ONLY solution is to recognise that and to remove it by removal of inequality. The inevitable end result of not doing that is the guillotine, social instability, or in this case a bullet.
However… :) theres a whole other issue of the people in the first paragraph, who see themselves as the “everyday volk”, being incredibly unequal to the other 90% of the world. So there’s an irony there that they need to use force to preserve thier own status quo, much like the C-suite rely on force to protect their status quo (police, army etc) . You see this play out in anti immigrant and refugee hostility, build a wall etc
Of those people who want more money to afford a comfortable life, it is much more rare to be mentally ill enough to want to be a billionaire and that is what is being discussed here really.
And on the topic of wanting more money to afford a comfortable life, that mostly exists also because achieving this comfortable and fear free life is made more harder by these billionaires who view services which should be basic social rights as sectors that they can squeeze money out of.
Wanting to be billionaire is not to be mentally ill. Who doesn’t like power without responsibility? Whatever moral framework you’ve got, most folk wouldn’t subscribe to when given option to be billionaire. Sorry, but that’s reality - power makes people drunk, and it’s only natural for us to want power - power to make our families and friends live better, to make people we despise grovel, to have all we want. It takes discipline and ideals to veer off into helping everyone.
And I agree with the lofe being made harder being the reason, but it doesn’t really apply to original comment I replied to.
sociopaths and children is who. have you ever been in charge of something important? something that actually matters to a number of people? if it turns into a power trip you need to grow the fuck up. it should be a humbling experience, that many people are relying on you take care of them in one way or another.
and to make people you don’t like ‘grovel’ is just maintaining a cycle of violence.
Oh I am %100 sure at least half the world will take the option to be a billionaire. But that to me just means that the Earth is in a mental health crisis.
power makes people drunk
Yes and then like some people do (and some people don’t) they get addicted to that substance which makes them drunk and addiction is a mental health problem and quite usually with some other underlying causes.
Most people don’t hate CEOs. They don’t care about CEOs. They have bigger issues to care about.
“…and that’s a good thing, so we’ll see to it that it remains that way. Divide and conquer.”
And the bigger issues are to keep a roof over their head and food on the table. Because of said CEOs.
That’s almost the exact qoute in my clipboard, and pretty much my response.
Let’s not turn a tragic incident into a trend. Most people don’t hate CEOs. They don’t care about CEOs. They have bigger issues to care about.
They will have bigger issues to care about. the quiet part said out loud.
How can you be so oblivious? When you’re the biggest issue people have, then you get to act all indignant when people deals with their issues.
They aren’t oblivious, they’re just relying on the operation of our society and their personal and organizational power to protect them. They don’t give a fuck, and they don’t want to give a fuck.
They have bigger issues to care about.
Issues caused mostly by CEOs.
I mean… I wouldn’t be too unhappy to see some rage directed towards the board of directors.
Well, corporate America is made up of hardworking Americans who do their best to reward the investors, and many times those investors are pension funds
Ah yes, every day I wake up to go to work just to do my best to reward the investors. Not because I need to pay for living expenses, just because I love pleasing the investors.
JFC these people are living in a fantasy world.
