• Pirasp@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I mainly kill animals to enjoy the silence that comes after.

    Damn mosquitoes sound annoying AF!

    • Lucy :3@feddit.org
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      5 months ago

      Also they’re so damn noisy. You’d think their parents could shut them up, but human babies just like to scream.

      • pyre@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        the least you could do is stfu and be grateful but no you have to fucking play vuvuzela LITERALLY IN MY EAR

    • threeduck@aussie.zone
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      5 months ago

      You should try dog if you get the chance, Elwood dog farm has a low impact factory farm where you can buy Labrador cuts and some gamier breeds if they’re in stock.

      • linkhidalgogato@lemmy.ml
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        5 months ago

        i know u are saying that because u think that would be bad but there is literally nothing wrong with eating dogs, also cats are good too.

        • Angry_Autist (he/him)@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          My concern with eating dogs and cats (which I have) is how they were fed. There isn’t a lot of health safety concern with those kinds of underground meat sources can sometimes feed dead livestock back to the populace and that can cause all numbers of prion and parasitic concerns.

        • threeduck@aussie.zone
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          5 months ago

          Great, so we agree no animals are ethically off limits to kill and consume. How about… Some of the more simple minded human populace? Like, if through IQ testing we find the bottom 5% of humans, and (without eating brain and spine, avoiding prion diseases) feed them to the masses? They’re probably not terribly much smarter than dogs, and they could help curb food shortages. Or are humans off limits?

          • linkhidalgogato@lemmy.ml
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            5 months ago

            Thats a fine slippery slope argument u got there and like always its complete shit, people are people and animals are animals.

            • threeduck@aussie.zone
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              5 months ago

              I’m not suggesting that animal eating leads to cannibalism, which WOULD be a slippery slope.

              I’m suggesting that if meat eaters are okay with killing and eating animals, why not the human animal? I probe because the line drawn in the sand is unclear with meat eaters.

              Also, humans are animals. This is primary school stuff here.

              What separates eating animals from eating people for you?

                • threeduck@aussie.zone
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                  5 months ago

                  Right, but what’s inherently wrong with eating your own species? I mean, I know, I think any sentient life shouldn’t be killed for my pleasure. But with your logic that some species are okay to kill and eat, and others aren’t, I’m wanting to know why those others aren’t.

                  Ignoring “societal norms”, as they’ve been used to commit genocide, slavery, and all manner of atrocities - why is cannibalism logically, in your opinion, bad?

            • threeduck@aussie.zone
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              5 months ago

              That’s why I said “avoiding the brain and spine, to avoid prion diseases”. You might have misread my comment.

              • Angry_Autist (he/him)@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                do you trust the processing facilities for the underground dogmeat industry to even come close to choosing safety over profit in shaving that meat down as close to cartilage as possible?

                • threeduck@aussie.zone
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                  5 months ago

                  Oh we’re talking about eating humans now, we’re well past dogs as it seems like a fair few people here would be okay with factory farming them.

                  Personally, my ethics are simple and easily define - if it displays sentience, I won’t eat it. It’s unethical to kill and eat something that feels pain. I’m more interested in your more nebulous ethics, where some species are okay to eat, some not

                  It sounds like you’re okay with eating dogs, which id argue is demonstrably disgusting, but in your opinion, is it okay to rear, kill and then eat humans?

          • Nikki@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            there are genuine health issues with cannibalism unlike dogs and cats, bet we taste good too given the right seasonings tho

            • threeduck@aussie.zone
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              5 months ago

              Only if you eat the brain or spinal column, which I was careful to add. Otherwise the risks are as manageable as with cow meat, i.e., parasites and bacteria. Given that you’re okay with eating cats and dogs, and now simple-minded humans, what’s to stop me from killing and eating you? I mean, all anyone needs to assert is that they’re mentally superior to their food, what’s off the table for you?

              I’m sure mass scale cannibalism might actually be as good for the environment as a plant based diet. Maybe you’re on to something. We’d be so morally consistent!

              • Nikki@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                go ahead a good third of my country thinks i shouldn’t exist anyway and im sick of fighting it, im sure i taste good too

                you keep trying to push people into corners about this when most ppl who eat meat do it simply because it tastes good, has good nutritional value, and is easily accessible. for my two cents in w serious manor, the meat industry is fucked up and should be regulated, since you didn’t take my initial comment as the shitpost it is

                there are moral concerns but for most people (majority will never even know what lemmy is) simply don’t care and will never care, because meat tastes good

                • threeduck@aussie.zone
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                  5 months ago

                  Pushing people into corners is what good debate is about. If people find their refutations are weak enough to have them back into a corner, then they should abandon that argument.

                  I grew up on a farm in the south of New Zealand. My brothers were dairy farmers, my front yard was cattle, I was a staunch anti-vegan who swore he’d never eat vegetarian as long as he lived.

                  I will never care because meat tastes good. Except now I do.

                  There is no level of regulation that permits - in good moral conscience - the subjugation and slaughter of animals for our pleasure.

                  Meat is only easily accessible because it is heavily subsidized by the government. A vegan diet is nearly always cheaper - consider that most developing nations eat vegan/vegetarian because of this.

                  There’s a short book I read that absolutely convinced me of veganism called “This is Vegan Propaganda and Other Lies The Meat Industry Tells You”. I’ve had 5 people read it, and ALL FIVE have gone vegan. It’s straight up insane how brutal a grip the meat industry has on people, through lobbying, ad campaigns, purposeful obfuscation of the industry. Bananas!

      • GroundedGator@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        I mean I could but I have a nearly limitless supply of rabbits in my yard. Their fur makes great gifts. My plants love the compost I get from everything else. As a bonus the blood compost deters rabbits from eating my cabbage.

        Funny thing, I can’t seem to find any type of vegan certification that is concerned with the use of animal byproducts or waste in fertilizer. A few specifically say they do not check fertilizer.

        • JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee
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          5 months ago

          Actually a lot of organic farms rely on blood and bone meal, manure and fish emulsion fertilizers. They’re inexpensive as they’re byproducts of other industries and are very good for plants.
          When I worked in an organic greenhouse I often wondered about how vegans would feel about farmers using animal based fertilizers. We definitely told people what we used, as we sold those products, but no one ever said anything about it. I guess vegans can’t control that so maybe it’s a nonissue unless they grow their own food and use seaweed based fertilizer(more expensive) instead?

          • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            If you’ve got the luxury, you can also let fields go fallow and rotate crops to avoid fertilizer. That obviously requires more land though

              • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                Does that work long term on a commercial scale without egg shells/ bone meal? Afaik, there needs to be an additional source of calcium, but that could of course also supplement crop rotation/fallowing.

                Though tbf, limestone is very soft and I could see supplementing with ground limestone.

                • Danquebec@sh.itjust.works
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                  5 months ago

                  Eggs shells don’t work unless they’re ground into a very fine powder.

                  I don’t know the answer to this question. You may be right. And yea, I can see limestone in the right doses working.

                  And we could always extract the nutrients from our waste. Close the cycle: what goes in, goes out. We’re already using biosolids in agriculture.

        • threeduck@aussie.zone
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          5 months ago

          Don’t let perfection be the enemy of good. If everyone stopped eating animals, there’d be no surplus of blood and bone for fertilisers, and other plant based by-products would fill the space.

          As for the rabbits, I actually have a small Australian shepherd that runs through my lawn chasing the wallabies that meander by, I’ve been meaning to trap it and humanely slaughter it, the blue coat would make a great gift! And if the owner comes by looking for Bella, I could trap him and humanely slaughter him too. He looks a bit simple, so it seems ethical to me? He’d make good compost, that’s for true.

          • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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            5 months ago

            I expected the dog to be actually blue, but it seems to just be a pattern. Would’v been cool though

      • MisterFrog@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Upvoting, because while I don’t eat meat myself, I like people who are consistent.

        If you’re okay with eating a pig, don’t judge those you eat a dog.

        • threeduck@aussie.zone
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          5 months ago

          Gamey unless reared correctly. Better to eat pet dogs as the meat generally tastes juicier. It can sometimes be unpleasant bolting them before slitting their throats after they’ve lived inside for so long, but knowing they lived a happy life free of predators, and didn’t die of old age (try to kill before they become yearlings) makes it feel right.

          • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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            5 months ago

            I’m fine with gamey meat, lots of hunters in the family. Sounds interesting, I might try it sometime.

          • Angry_Autist (he/him)@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Apologies but this is just assumptions. Pet meat isn’t good quality. Your average commercial pet food uses hydrogenated oils for shelf longevity and that causes a very bitter flavor.

            farm raised dog is usually fed on grain and suet or tallow, and avoids this problem.

            • threeduck@aussie.zone
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              5 months ago

              What? Try harder to what? Don’t defend yourself in court hahahaha. “Does the defense have any closing statements?” “Uh yes your honour. Ahem. leans into mic t-try harder”

        • tobogganablaze@lemmus.org
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          5 months ago

          You can try some in Switzerland. While you can’t sell the meat, slaughtering and eating it is legal. There is farms where you can “make a donation” and they’ll invite you to dinner.

        • threeduck@aussie.zone
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          5 months ago

          I agree! There’s actually a few human races I consider acceptable to eat, what a breath of fresh air to find someone like minded!

            • threeduck@aussie.zone
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              5 months ago

              I suppose when you presuppose superiority over sentient life for no other reason than your own pleasure, it’s quite easy to become racist.

              You’re dawn right “ew”!

      • nieceandtows@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        I mean, people hardly ever eat carnivores. Even pigs, which are omnivores, are 90% of the time herbivores. I don’t even eat meat, but this argument never made sense to me. Yes, there are countries where people eat dogs, but that doesn’t mean dogs and cats are equivalent to cattle. You can make an argument for horses though.

        • threeduck@aussie.zone
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          5 months ago

          The argument works for a Western audience that are okay with killing and eat some animals, but find it abhorrent to eat others. Most people don’t like the idea of dogs in pain, and if we did rear dogs like we do pigs, there would be huge public outcry.

          And sure, you get Redditors and Lemmy-ites who go “Oh ho i’d eat dog!”, but they mean they’d try the meat once at a market, to maintain moral consistency. The truth is they’d be just as horrified if they saw dogs yelping in factory farmed cages, like we treat chickens.

          But there’s no reason to treat some animals one way, some another. They all feel pain, they all feel misery, they all call for their children once they’ve been culled. It’s objectively immoral to eat meat when not for necessity.

          • whotookkarl@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            How do you measure how much misery a cod feels?

            Edit: sorry that was a bit snarky. I don’t think you’re completely off the mark but I would think an animal needs at least a nervous system to experience pain, so there are categories to consider and it may be morally virtuous to abstain from eating some animals but not necessarily immoral, and we should be careful to anthropomorphize other animal emotional states.

            • threeduck@aussie.zone
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              5 months ago

              So fish have nociceptors, and a brain that connects to them, and they avoid painful stimuli. They have analgesic response systems in their brain to dull painful stimuli. Even the most cautious interpetation of misery would include pain, so I would not kill and eat it. Fish display sentience, therefore it is immoral to kill them for pleasure.

                • threeduck@aussie.zone
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                  5 months ago

                  No serious study suggests plants feel pain. They do not have a brain or central nervous system. At most, they respond to stimuli.

                  Many more plants “die” for animal feeding than with a vegan diet.

                  If you’re worried about grass pain, you should focus more on the animals that DO have nociceptors, central nervous systems and brains, and the ability to feel fear that you subject them too, purely for taste preference.

              • whotookkarl@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                Maybe I’m off on this but suffering/misery would include pain + the emotional state of unhappiness or we would just use pain for both? Avoiding painful stimuli doesn’t tell me about their emotional state or cognitive awareness of the pain, just an awareness of the stimuli.

      • x4740N@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        Knock it off with the trolling nonsense

        It’s pretty obvious you’re a troll

        We are well aware of the dog meat troll tactic from vеgаns

        • threeduck@aussie.zone
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          5 months ago

          Hypothetical moral questions posed genuinely is not trolling. If you’re okay with eating cows and pigs, why is eating dogs considered trolling?

            • threeduck@aussie.zone
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              5 months ago

              I have no intent to deceive. There’s a moral inconsistency amongst meat eaters. Pigs are okay, dogs are not. Why? “Oh, because we like dogs” Does that mean I can eat any sentient thing I dislike? “Well, no, dogs are intelligent!” Pigs are smarter than most breeds of dog, and have equal capabilities for emotion.

              There is no logical argument against veganism in western society. Literally none. Meat eaters collectively breed and kill literally billions of animals per year, destroying the planet, because it’s yummy. Meat eaters have essentially caused swine flu, bird flu, ebola, corona virus, just for the taste of meat. Meat eaters are causing treatment resistant bacteria by abusing antibiotics on high intensity farming, all for meat. That’s crazy.

                • FlorianSimon@sh.itjust.works
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                  5 months ago

                  No it’s not. It being a “gotcha” does not mean it’s wrong. In fact, it is still right, you’re just wrong and think the person you reply to is wrong because they disagree with you.

              • linkhidalgogato@lemmy.ml
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                5 months ago

                there is no logical argument for a lot of things, its just culture. and it is tasty and thats all that need be said.

                • threeduck@aussie.zone
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                  5 months ago

                  There’s a lot of awful things in culture. It was culturally acceptable to slap a women on the bottom for a good job.

                  Your argument is “ah well”.

                  That’s not a reasonable defense for your objectively immoral actions. You are causing the suffering of sentient life for taste, that makes you immoral. Not to mention the horrible effect your diet has on the planet.

        • ✺roguetrick✺@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Listen brother, I eat meat but if you go into a vegan post and get into an argument about veganism, you’re not being trolled, you’re the troll.

          • Serinus@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            It doesn’t help that the vegans are right. The meat industry is a nightmare, terrible for the environment, and pretty bad for our health.

            It’s insane that most Americans eat meat every day.

            If I could put 100% tax on meat tomorrow I would, but that’s political suicide, so it’ll never happen. It’d be easier to adjust than you think. There are plenty of delicious vegetarian options, and it’d be a lot easier to choose those if they were more common.

            I eat meat because it’s culturally acceptable, delicious, ubiquitous, and I don’t believe I can make a noticeable difference. But that doesn’t mean I think it’s right.

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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              5 months ago

              I don’t believe I can make a noticeable difference.

              Not eating meat won’t change the systemic problems but it will mean fewer animals will be subject to the industry. Over the course of a lifetime, the number of animals you can save adds up.

              Also it’s a good habit to transfer thoughts and beliefs into actions.

              • KⒶMⒶLⒶ WⒶLZ 2Ⓐ24@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                Not eating meat won’t change the systemic problems but it will mean fewer animals will be subject to the industry.

                more animals are breed and slaughtered every year than the year before. being vegan has never reduced that

                • threeduck@aussie.zone
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                  5 months ago

                  What bizarre logic, what thorough lack of object permanence.

                  Just because meat eating outpaces veganism doesn’t mean vegans haven’t reduced the consumption of meat?

                  I don’t even think you know what you’re saying now. If the whole world went vegan today, there’d be no meat animal slaughter. YOU are the cause of this problem.

                  “Oh world hunger is getting worse, I better stop my charity donations!”

                  “Oh greenhouse gas emissions are on the rise, might as well go back to oil and gas!”

                  Like, you realise how foolish that argument is, right?

  • Machinist@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I actually respect vegans that are vegan to prevent the suffering of animals.

    I get it. Grew up farming. Chicken houses are an industrial horror machine.

    We’ve recently bought a play farm and hope to raise or hunt all our meat. Only the slaughter and butchering of steers will be outsourced. Takes some serious equipment to handle an animal that large.

    I’m an omnivore by evolution and enjoy meat and hunting. I’m always a little sad when I kill something, however. I figure that sadness means I’m human and is a good thing. When I eat meat from something I killed, it means more. There is a lot of respect involved in it as well something like religion.

    If more people had to kill their meat, we would probably live in a very different world and there would be a lot more vegans.

    • tobogganablaze@lemmus.org
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      5 months ago

      If more people had to kill their meat, we would probably live in a very different world and there would be a lot more vegans.

      I agree with your overall post, but you have the conclusion backwards.

      The closer you are to hunting or slaughtering the more it’s just a normal part of life. I’ve never met a vegan when I grew up in a rural area around farms, only after I moved to the city and it’s almost exclusivly people that grew up in the city.

      • Ryan@feddit.uk
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        5 months ago

        vegan here who grew up on farms. Just because you don’t know them doesn’t mean they aren’t common.

        • tobogganablaze@lemmus.org
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          5 months ago

          Well, I wouldn’t say vegans are common anywhere (where I’ve lived). It’s like 1-2% of the population.

          And while my point indeed was totally anecdotal, it goes beyond just knowing people. There are other hints. I still often visit family in my childhood home area and even today you can notice a different in marketing. Restaurants there often don’t even mark meals as vegan on the menu, while restaurants in big cities often have an entire section for vegan meals.

          Also supermarkets specialising on bio food and such (our equivilant of like wholefoods) aren’t present at all. You’d have to drive like 30km to get to one. Also in regular supermarkets meat replacement options are either not availible or poorly stocked.

          So I’m not sure if it’s a result or a cause, but I’d say it’s much harder to be vegan in a rural area, just from a logistical standpoint. And you get a lot more local farmers markets, so you also have access to fresh and relativly cheap meat.

          I’ve tried to search for some statistics about the distribution of vegans in urban and rural areas, but didn’t find anything useful. I did find some quora and reddit threads with quite a few replies of people that have similar expirences to mine.

          If you have any, please share.

          • Ryan@feddit.uk
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            5 months ago

            Yeah, you’re right it’s a different thing to doing it in cities, cooking is important. In my experience, I have lots of vegan rural friends however that’s due to my social circle and isn’t representive. In the uk apparently we are on 4.7% vegan now (1567% increase in 10 years) its become noticeably more over the last few years but probably not to the same level as cities.

      • Machinist@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        You might be right. When I was young; didn’t meet vegans until I experienced big cities.

    • Kacarott@aussie.zone
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      5 months ago

      If people had to kill their own meat, not only would there be more vegans, but people who did eat meat would probably eat a lot less on average than the average person today does. It would probably make a lot of people healthier too.

      • Wogi@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        It would eliminate fast food that’s for sure.

        Healthier is debatable. Meat is, relatively speaking, pretty good from a health perspective.

        Most of what we eat that’s “bad for us” is refined carbohydrates. Sugar, fried starches, breads, that kinda shit. The burger patty is far from the worst offender on the plate.

        If suddenly everyone is slaughtering their own animals, the foods they turn to to replace this calories aren’t going to be leafy greens, they’re going to be shitty carbs. Shitty carbs are already most of people’s diets.

        • Kacarott@aussie.zone
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          5 months ago

          That’s a fair point, I was mostly thinking that many people consume far too much meat, and that reducing it would be healthy, but if it’s only being replaced with trash then it wouldn’t be any better

          • Wogi@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            If we’re talking about processed meat, that’s probably true. Even a small amount is probably too much.* If we’re talking about like, grilled whole cuts? Which admittedly probably isn’t typical in most diets, hard to get too much of that. And would be much more common if we were butchering our own meat. But so too would probably be sausage and cured meat so, now I’m not so sure things would change that much.

            *Guilty as charged.

      • linkhidalgogato@lemmy.ml
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        5 months ago

        people would probably eat less meat sure just because of the logistics of it, but did u forget that history is a thing? 150 odd years ago most people regularly slaughtered their own animals a few hundred years further back and basically everyone did, and at the same time almost everyone with very very few exceptions ate meat.

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          5 months ago

          Of course they did, they also had drastically less options than they do today. It’s no coincidence that veganism is a fairly new concept, it’s only fairly recently that it’s become feasible.

          • linkhidalgogato@lemmy.ml
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            5 months ago

            My point is that slaughtering ur own animals is in no way a deterrent for eating meat at least no more that any other prep for any food is. Also Pescetarianism was available as a life style and very few people chose it despite not having to slaughter anything smart, and despite fish being very easy to kill and butcher from a literal and moral perspective.

            • Kacarott@aussie.zone
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              5 months ago

              Well I agree with you that I don’t think it was much of a deterrent, because that was the reality of how people were raised. But I think these days many people have never killed the animals they eat, and they were also not raised in the same conditions, so I suspect that forcing people to kill their own animals today would indeed be somewhat of a deterrent, at least to certain groups of people. But this is of course all just my opinion and speculation.

    • ikidd@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Really, all you need is a small tractor to lift the steer after you’ve skinned it and to drop the gut. Skin the animal on the ground and roll it from side to side to get it all off, split the chest and cut out the anus, start lifting at the rear legs with chains through the achilles tendon, and pull the anus through, then as you lift more you can free the gut from the backbone and gravity will pull the gut down as you get higher.

      Let it all fall on the skin, pull out the bits of organs you want or can feed the dog, and you have the carcass hanging now. Split with a sawsall and a long demolition blade. Make yourself a handhold between the fifth and sixth rib, then cut through the spine and breastbone above the 6th rib.

      Leave as much fat on the inside of the cavity as possible so the tenderloin and brisket don’t dry out when hanging. Try to hang it at 2-4C for a couple weeks.

      • Machinist@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        This sounds like excellent advice. I don’t even have a small tractor yet. Before steers, I’m going to have to string new fence. Next spring, if I’m lucky and have worked real hard, I’ll be getting a bottle calve or two.

        Did find a cinder block shed with a good roof that wasn’t even listed. Has a loading ramp for a pickup. I’m real tempted to just outsource it.

        Have a hernia and don’t know if I can do it.

        Do have a root cellar that will be perfect for hanging.

        • ikidd@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          It’s not a bad job, but with a hernia you might find it distinctly unenjoyable. There’s quite a bit of bending and kneeling as you skin, obviously.

    • linkhidalgogato@lemmy.ml
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      5 months ago

      we used to live in a world were almost every slaughtered their own animals to eat and withing a rounding error everyone ate meat. its only icky to us today BECAUSE we dont interact with it.

    • Godric@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I heartily agree. I’m also an omnivore, raised on a farm. The best meat is the meat you raised or hunted yourself, both ethically and taste wise.

      The respect I have for the animal I personally kill for sustenance is the closest an atheist like myself will ever get to religion. I respect the lives of animals to sustain mine as a human, and I know if I raised it or hunted it, it had a much better life and will taste better than any meat you’ll see at a Wallmart.

      • Machinist@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Damn skippy. I’ve learned I’m an atheist with a pagan heart.

        I’ve found that I must be hunting something when I go in the woods or on the water. Animal, vegetable, or something else. Don’t care if I actually kill, catch, or find; there just has to be a goal. I love taking other people and helping them get in tune with the world.

      • Teppichbrand@feddit.org
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        5 months ago

        This makes me angry. You murder a creature for your pleasure. You do it against her will. If she could talk she’d beg you for her life, if she could fight back she would. Talking about respect in this violent relationship is self-righteous, cynical and speciesist bullshit. Like talking about respect after raping a child. The best pussy is the one you hunted yourself, right?

        • Godric@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          For hunting, would you prefer the animal overpopulation starve, get torn apart over hours by predators, or get hit by a car, killing people? A hunters bullet is one of the fastest deaths a wild animal will get.

          If plants you kill to eat, the trees that became your furniture and home could talk, they’d beg too. So would the termites, bedbugs and lice, viruses and flesh eating bacteria.

          Lastly are you nuts?? Eating a steak isn’t child rape, that’s insanity lmfao

            • Godric@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              Since eating is just like fucking, do you fuck the pumpkin pie at family dinner?

              Also, nice job addressing 0 of the things I said. Keep that vegan rep strong!

              • Teppichbrand@feddit.org
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                5 months ago

                Haha, no, I don’t fuck pumpkin, do you even get what I’m trying to say?
                Did you look at the Bullshit Bingo? It addresses everything you said, because you’re not the first one to come up with it. It’s a collection of a hand full of replies I hear all the time. I answer them all the time. I even looked up the # so you don’t have to go through the rest of the bullshit.

        • Machinist@lemmy.world
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          Wow, like you’re pretty warped. Here we are with the rape stuff again. Raping children, no less.

          You need to do some thinking. That line of argument isn’t effective.

          You’re claiming this crazy shit and the above person and myself are actively working minimize the suffering of animals.

          Go touch grass and pet a dog.

          • Teppichbrand@feddit.org
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            5 months ago

            Why crazy? It is a very accurate comparison:
            Having sex and eating food is a core pleasure baked deep into our brains. We can decide what to eat and who to have sex with and we can use force to get what we want. It’s a taboo to rape and a taboo to kill. Animals can’t fight back like adult humans because they are innocent and often don’t understand the situation they are in, just like children.
            Not seeing the similarities is because specisism and carnism are normalised to us in every aspect of our lifes since we’re born. Watch the videos, I’m not fighting you. If you want to minimize the suffering of animals, leave them alone! It took me quite some time to figure this out as well.

            • Machinist@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              I’m currently working outside my old home, preparing it for sell. Taking a break right now.

              A little old lady just stopped to grab things I’m sitting by the road for picking. She has a daughter and grandkids that are running from abuse. They’ll be getting a bunk bed and dressers from us. She likes pigs, we have pet pigs. I’m sitting aside some pig figurines that my girl left behind. One is a birdhouse that is full of piss ants, an invasive species. I poisned the fuck out them because they need to die. They’re varmints.

              I have a rat problem I’m dealing with due to the cat moving and a bag of feed being left behind. I’m using poison, traps, and a gun to kill the varmints.

              I’m not going to take the time to watch whatever videos you’re suggesting. Eating meat isn’t rape. That is a stupid argument you shouldn’t use. It is killing. I’m comfortable with killing.

              I’m likely way more in tune with nature, animals, and trying to minimize my impact on the earth than you ever will be. Some of your ideology is poisonous and you are sick from it.

              Humans have canines and binocular vision because we are omnivores. Meat and killing can be ethical, it’s just difficult.

              • Teppichbrand@feddit.org
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                5 months ago

                You’re comfortable with killing because you’re not the one whos throat is being slit.
                I would argue that your idiology is way more poisonous and harmful than mine. If you don’t want to watch anything, you can read the transscript here.
                Who’s got the most impressive canines? You know what they eat?

                • Machinist@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  The woman in that picture has some very minor canines.

                  The cat has some big ones.

                  Walking out of a unsuccessful deer hunt, I had an encounter with a mountain lion. Hissed and growled it away. Like totally a peak life experience. It was thinking about eating me and I convinced it otherwise. Did pull my pocket gun in fear.

    • Jerkface (any/all)@lemmy.ca
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      5 months ago

      No, you don’t get it. Or you would stop raping, enslaving, torturing and murdering animals.

      The animals we create are morally equivalent to our own children and are owed the exact same unconditional love and protection.

        • Hammocks4All@lemmy.ml
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          5 months ago

          ???

          Getting roaches, which invade your space, don’t contribute positively to it and, in fact, can cause disease is quite different from voluntarily raising chickens for slaughter.

      • Machinist@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        I can confidently say that I have never raped an animal.

        My housecat engages in a lot of torture, but she’s a damned good mouser. I put a stop to the torture when I catch it. I don’t allow my cats outside because they’re so bad on native wildlife, especially ground nesting birds. Cats are obligate predators. I kill cats if I find them in the woods as they are now varmints.

        I’m an omnivore, and am at peace with that. I strive to kill in a manner that I find ethical. I kill critters to eat them, varmints to restore balance. I’ll eat the varmints if I can.

        I live in the real world.

  • Tudsamfa@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    99% of humans have the complete opposite reaction when the animal in question is a mosquito.

    • Kacarott@aussie.zone
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      5 months ago

      Mosquitos have been causing humans harm since forever. If the vegan idea is too reduce harm then maybe vegans should be obligated to kill the sadistic little fuckers

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    5 months ago

    Oh hey, a 1-day-old account posting 6 vegan posts in 1 hour to unrelated communities. I’ve seen this one before.

  • AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml
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    5 months ago

    want to see a westerner have a full on tantrum? Suggest to them that their actions are not always morally neutral

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        5 months ago

        I hate these filthy Neutrals. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me.

            • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
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              5 months ago

              Can anyone downvoting this explain how vegans are not morally superior?

              • Not a vegan btw
              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                5 months ago

                I would be very surprised. I am not even fully vegan myself, people just don’t want to confront their own moral issues.

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                Yes, they are, unless you can make the argument that animal suffering and environmental destruction are good things.

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                5 months ago

                This isn’t about being smug or not. Veganism is morally superior as long as you consider that animals suffer for Human Consumption, envionmental impacts of animal products far outweigh vegan alternatives, and humans can get all of their nutrition from vegan sources.

                The reason humans eat meat is for pleasure and profit, neither of which can be considered “morally superior” to the benefits of Veganism.

            • Godric@lemmy.world
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              I really hope it’s a cultural difference, but where I’m from, calling someone a ‘morally inferior feminine whiner’ “having a full on tantrum” because they said something you dislike with is frowned upon.

              • AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml
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                5 months ago

                Flattening “I deserve to murder terrified children slaves because I’m a picky eater” to “something I dislike” is a bigger offense than your misquote.

                But your description of the carnists in this thread is not inaccurate, minus the misogyny you’re illiterately trying to paint me with.

                But no matter what, wherever there’s suffering; wherever there’s exploitation, there’s a .world account defending it in the most trite, superficial way possible.

  • Samsy@lemmy.ml
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    5 months ago

    I would join vegan standards but I still wait for the “eat the rich” part. I mean who would do it? Those vegans? no. This is a job for meat lovers.

  • Leviathan@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I grew up on a farm, I’ve killed and slaughtered my own food my whole life and I always felt good about eating meat because of that fact.

    As I get older I’m really starting to hate killing things, I don’t want to end a life at all. My couple of vegetarian days might turn into a whole lifestyle.

  • TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee
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    5 months ago

    The trick is not to kill them yourself, but have factories and animal farms do it while deluding yourself into believing that there is a humane way to killing a living being when the reality is there are only less painful ways. Also, from the other side of the aisle, the trick is to delude yourself into thinking that animals would have any problems eating and preying on you. If cattle had no place in human society, their numbers would significantly decrease. What does that say about human societies with large socioeconomic disparity who are treated by cattle by the rich as they get increasingly automated?

    There’s no point to this comment, it has been released into the wild so that it may be free.