I use the apps my friends use but it gets tiring to keep up with so many.
Friends don’t make friends install chat apps (besides Signal)
Not sure why you were downvoted. I’ve successfully made most of my friends, and my mom for that matter, talk to me on Signal.
The comment implies Signal is peak chat when it’s flawed & other than maybe onboarding, isn’t superior to alternatives—with the phone number being a pro for onboarding is a con for privacy. It still requires you have an Android or iOS primary device (fueling that duopoly). They don’t want you installing it from a safer space like F-Droid. They still by default send notification metadata to Google & Apple (websocket support exists but drains a fair amount of battery & they refuse to support UnifiedPush). They still ship/use Apple emoji on Android & Linux. It’s still a centralized system you can’t self-host. They still have that missing part of the source code (where I would assume the feds planted something). It still isn’t a good space large chats. And the Electron desktop apps are far too bloated.
And the Electron desktop apps are far too bloated.
No argument. Electron is categorically silly in its own right, lol.
They don’t want you installing it from a safer space like F-Droid.
F-Droid is by no means safe; use Droidify.
They still by default send notification metadata to Google & Apple (websocket support exists but drains a fair amount of battery & they refuse to support UnifiedPush).
Easy: use the FOSS version of Molly instead of the default Signal app.
Hi, could you touch on why F-Droid is less safe? Is it because they package (I think that’s the term?) stuff themselves?
Certainly.
To answer your question: yeah, pretty much.
I got all of this information, originally, through this guy’s channel (Side Of Burritos on YouTube):
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzpVI4zaso0
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAbgeJau3eE
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFz57zNR_M0
It’s also worth mentioning that part three of that series ended up directly inspiring another project called Obtanium, which he then did a video on here:
Signal is the best, but no way I’m going to be able to get my wife, my friends, my parents and in-laws to use it.
Have you considered emotional blackmail?
No, I haven’t reached that point yet.
Do yo need a wife, friends, parents, or in-laws?
i really fucking hate discord.
Why does EVERYTHING have to be proprietary. Fucking capitalism.
Its pretty amazing for voice communication in gaming.
As a messenging app? Meh
dude discord has been one of the worst experiences for voip in gaming IME. I started using mumble SOLELY because discord was actually just disappointing. Though tbf maybe if i paid out the ass for nitro it’s better? I ain’t paying for that though.
Though yeah, for messaging, it’s dogshit, It’s a mess.
A funny advice I will give is recommending you and your friends use noise cancelling audio gear. It will help regardless of the platform.
i get much better call quality in telegram
I don’t get why people like it either. It’s a mess of chats.
Gamers using it for gaming. In game Voice communication is trash
And that’s fine, but why do gamers use it over any other VoIP option? And why the infinity chat channels over infinity servers?
I really wanted to keep faith in it after the ui overhaul recently - VoIP performance was SO much better on Xbox, latency specifically. But good GOD the mobile app is just a pile of garbage nowdays. I have so many friends stuck on that platform, I still end up sharing links there to Lemmy memes and like 60% of the time when I share to the app it permenantly sticks on the splash screen??? 🙄 notifications are fucked these days too, myself & my friend group regularly miss messages entirely, even with direct @ mentions?!
Worse, I dropped a crap review and complained that function has dropped horribly since the update and the devs INSTANTLY replied like “Have you tried pretending you’re a beta tester for us? Do you mind doing a buncha troubleshooting you definitely haven’t already done?” (They wanted me to reinstall the app… Smh)
Anyway - fuck discord. I’m planning to shift to Revolt, but if anyone has better suggestions I’d be happy to try some!
im genuinely surprised discord even tries testing things on the two test branches they have. Yes, you heard me correctly, they have TWO separate testing branches. Bugs literally should not exist on the stable branch.
also when it comes to voip, i’ve enjoyed mumble, it’s pretty solid, minimal, configurable (highly integrated into games already, it’s old af though so maybe not new games) and works pretty well. Revolt seems alright, but it’s plagued with bugs, and weird issues, plus it’s self hosting is just, jank.
We could use a self hosted discord replacement tbh.
Don’t like it - don’t use it. It’s a free (capitalist) country.
that’s the cool thing, i dont, but you know who does? You, and you know how i would need to contact you? Through discord! Uh oh!
Just never interact with anyone. Christ, it’s not that hard people! (This comment doesn’t count.)
We’re all bots. You still haven’t interacted with a person.
Everyone on lemmy is a bot except for you.
Speak for yourself. I’m not a bot, I’m a cat walking across an unmonitored keyboard.
So you are a robotic cat, even better!
Matrix and bridges
Only if you tell your contacts about it, and explain to them what a bridge does
Why?
Take Signal to Matrix for example. They use different encryption protocols, which means a message sent from one end has to be decrypted, and then re-encrypted with the protocol of the recipient before they can actually receive it.
So basically, your encryption is not very e2e anymore, and the fact that someone can set this up, effectively giving encryption keys to a third party without their contacts being able to do anything about it is pretty fucked.
Oh, and different TOS between different services also come into play.
So if you do this, at least tell your contacts about it, so they can make an informed decision about whether or not that’s okay for them.
Just self host the bridges. I mean if you trust your phone more than your server, this won’t help.
Do whatever you want, but again, make sure your contacts can make an informed decision about it.
XMPP & Gateways
Yeah, there was a nice period when Pidgin could easily handle all the chats. Then providers siloed their apps 🫤
That was the time when all the apps were standard XMPP. It didn’t have proper encryption back then. WhatsApp is still XMPP nowadays, but excluding federation and non-standard implementation on Meta servers and so on
Fun fact, iMessage is also XMPP based!
My brother in Christ do you know what fun means
Federated XMPP is fun yes, defederated XMPP is, indeed, not fun.
Also I’m no Christ’s brother, thanks. Beelzebub maybe.
So is WhatsApp, Zoom, Jitsi
Had no idea about Zoom!
It’s kind of crazy that all these services use it, and on the federated side of things, Signal killed it.
It also powers the communications / presence on many gaming avenues as well like Fortnite, League of Legends, & whatever Nintendo is using for notifications + online status (assuredly a lot more games).
XMPP is old, stable, & massively scalable for industrial applications – while maintaining decentralization + efficiency & allowing for extensibility like OMEMO encryption which is covering most folk’s chat use cases. Since the XMPP foundation don’t put budget into marketing & hype, a lot of folks weirdly assume it’s dead or not being used. It’s strange to me how folks seem more interested in RCS & Matrix despite their histories/ownership/flaws rather than embracing what is already good.
Yeah, XMPP is great and all, but the client side is a big old mess, everything is full of friction and missing support for feature xyz. Have you tried using XMPP on iOS?
Conversations compliance test has brought most clients into an acceptable base to where most basic chat/audio/video needs are met, so if you are comparing older legacy clients then the experience will be different. The XEP system means everything is optional & can be pitched by making a spec & seeing who uptakes the idea. It also means the bar to create your own server is absoluetly minimal since everything is an extension which means you could build one in a weekend which is great for those learning to code since the barrier to entry is extremely low if Conversations isn’t the goal.
IDGAF about Apple since you have to have a wad just to publish an application on their proprietary store & the EU didn’t do a good enough job so it’s expensive to open alternative stores like F-Droid while also being antagonistic towards sideloading as well as PWAs (not to mention needing to buy their overpriced hardware to build/release applications). Heck, you can’t even publish a GPL-or-similar-licensed app on their store. This is a giant slap in the face to free/ethical software developers & probably why the clients aren’t in a good state; if you aren’t trying to make money, why would you develop in an ecosystem that is entirely hostile for you to develop in?
It didn’t have proper encryption back then.
OTR predates all the commercial platforms adopting XMPP, so that’s not exactly true.
Was OTR a protocol where the server had zero knowledge of the unencrypted content? Or was it basically like SSL?
Sure, but now you show me all the clients that supported OTR back then 😜 - or now, for that matter. Besides, OTR doesn’t work in multi user chats. OMEMO does, and support for it is still not exactly widespread…
Most popular clients supported OTR back then… Pidgin, Gajim, Adium, bitlbee, Psi, you name it.
And that’s at a time where absolutely no one did E2E, even SSL wasn’t a given.
Yes OTR* doesn’t do group chat, but now you’re just moving the goalpost.
*There has been a proposal in the works for years and years, but OMEMO stole a lot of it’s traction, and the last nail in the coffin was the arrest of Ola Bini in Ecuador as he was one of the main contributors.
You seem to not get that OMEMO is directly based on OTR.
You can bridge to all of the apps in the image from Matrix
Or Slidge
I actually tried pidgin maybe 6 months ago just for kicks if it could handle whatsapp, signal and telegram, and whaddaya know, it could. It was ugly as hell, but it could be done.
For whatsapp, my experience with Pidgin was terrible. Stickers had to be downloaded as photos, group chats would only show up once someone sent a message, contacts would only show as the full international phone number, all existing chats were horizontal tabs, like a browser.
A chat app for every friend and a launcher for every game. We live in a utopia.
I have a friend that will only chat with me on Instagram. I have his number, but he will never respond to text. He only engages in insta, it’s mildly infuriating.
…Have they ever explained why?
And other countries don’t understand why US users stick to txt/mms… Its convenient and built into the phone so everyone has it.
Your options are RCS, Signal, or Lemmy mentions. Or losing contact with me I guess but I’m irresistible
Reality check: nobody cares about you if you do not comply with societal “common denominator” norms.
As unfortunate and bullshit as that sounds, it will always hold true. This is the reason I have Whatsapp and Discord work profile sandboxed and highly restricted running through custom HOSTS ruleset + NetGuard. I concluded these are the 2 platforms needed to minmax information “freedom” and social compliance.
So… proprietary data collecting thing owned by Google, service that requires phone number to sign up, or service that does not even pretend to be E2EE and (worse) routes chat traffic through multiple potentially-adversary-controlled servers on its way to you?
- RCS is licensed GSMA, not owned by Google
- Signal requiring a phone number is a REALLY minor drawback
- Obviously lemmy mentions would not be for messages intended to be private, but for anyone to see, just like this one here.
You know RCS is not proprietary, right
But like saying Android isn’t proprietary.
Like yeah, technically true, but in reality everybody uses a proprietary version of it controlled by Google.
“I only talk to other nerds” basically
Nah everyone has RCS these days except people with old phones and iPhones, and even the iPhones are going to be rcs compatible soon
What is RCS?
It’s a messaging standard, it’s pretty much SMS + Internet features. Developed like a decade ago and apple he been trying to dumpster it since then.
RCS, Signal, or Lemmy
I wish. But I don’t know a single person that uses any of those.
Most of my friends use Signal. Honestly hadn’t heard of RCS till now. Either my phone only supports SMS or I’m too technologically incompetent to enable RCS.
I have 3/7 and I hate it. I wish signal never removed the ability to function as sms
Even if it did, it didn’t support rcs
That’s because Google is gatekeeping the android API for RCS
Wait, I thought Google wanted Apple to start supporting RCS. So that everyone can talk to each other.
So Google is just…trying to strong arm apple to give up their proprietary protocol for their own?
That’s so fucked up.
RCS is an open standard. However, on Android you can only use it with Google chat. So android stops any other apps from using it. Nothing to stop you making your own phone from scratch and adopting it.
It’s incredibly stupid, I know.
Samsung messages app also supports RCS, depending on your carrier, though? It’s super fucking buggy and frequently switches back to sms so I still switched to Google messages, but it does technically have it.
- Have friends
- Talk to them.
We need a new Trillian or Adium. Fucking anti-interop gatekeepers.
Omg trillian immediately reminds me of ICQ and MSN Messenger
Matrix with bridges can help consolidate them. Some managed versions exist like Beeper and Element. Been slowly moving to that. Will eventually self host.
Yeah… This 1000 times… It DOES bother me to install all that shit. What doesn’t bother me? Installing a bridge on Matrix and having everything in one place. Hell I’ve even started adding matrix to my linux scripts. I get notifications about script status in dedicated spaces on my single chat window.
I’m literally SMS away from doing 100% of the chat clients I use for personal usage… And seriously debating on bridging teams for work usage.
I’ve even gotten my wife onboard. That, to me, speaks about how frustrated normal people are with having many different apps as well.
they are beasts to set up self host. I’m going to do it one day
Schildichat > Element
Yeah I’m using Schildi at the moment as well. Thought since it’s a fork of Element, and most people recognize its logo, I featured it instead.
Wait, do you guys have friends?
