It is the perfect example of the paradox of tolerance.

Yep. Once the nazis start drinking at your bar, it becomes a nazi bar whether you wanted it to or not. Tolerance of the intolerant only breeds further intolerance. You gotta cut it off somewhere.

He’s the guy who said he wasn’t sure whether he was a man dreaming he was a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming he was a man.

It’s said that when his wife died his friend found him drumming and singing. When asked why he was behaving inappropriately, he said. “if I weren’t singing I would cry, and then I would have forgotten that all things are constantly transitioning into something else.”

There’s also a certain amount of philosophical one-up-manship.

‘Inner’ Chapters, written by Zhuangzi with scholarly comments and context: https://scholarworks.iu.edu/dspace/handle/2022/23427
‘Outer’ Chapters with chinese text (sorry probably better options out there): https://ctext.org/zhuangzi/outer-chapters
Niether Lord Nor Subject, by Bao Jingyan (another daoist text I find incredibly beautiful and calming. It’s ~8min): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs23tDAaEho

Ziyu fell ill. Zisi went to see how he was. “How remarkable!” said Ziyu. “The Creator of things is making me into this hooked shape. A hump has thrust up from my back, my five viscera are top-wards, my cheeks are in the shadow of my belly, my shoulders rise above my head, and my pigtail is pointing at the sky! It must be some dislocation of my yin and yang qi.”
Yet he was calm at heart and unconcerned. Crawling to the well, he looked in at his reflection.
“Oh, my! The Creator’s made me even more crooked!”
“Do you resent it?” asked Zisi.
“Why, no! What is there to resent? If this goes on perhaps he’ll turn my left arm into a rooster and I’ll keep watch over the night. Or perhaps in time he’ll transform my right arm into a crossbow pellet and I’ll shoot down an owl to roast. Or perhaps he’ll turn my buttocks into cartwheels and I’ll ascend into the sky with my spirit as my horse! Why would I ever want a new carriage again?
“I received life because the season had come. I will lose it in the flow of time. Content with the seasons and dwelling in the flow of time, neither sorrow nor joy can get within me. In ancient times this was called ‘untying the bonds.’ There are those who cannot free themselves because they are bound by things. Besides, no thing can ever prevail over Heaven – that’s the way it has always been. What would I have to resent?”
…
“The Great Clod burdens me with form, labors me with life, eases me in old age, rests me in death. So if I think well of my life, for the same reason I must think well of my death. Were a skilled smith casting metal, if the metal should leap up and say, ‘I insist on becoming a Moye-type sword!’ the smith would regard it as most inauspicious metal indeed. Now having had the audacity to have once taken on human form, I should now say, ‘I won’t be anything but a man! Nothing but a man!’ the Creator would surely regard me as a most inauspicious person."

That’s a section I love from chapter 6.

This is the end of the inner chapters. Note that ‘Hundun’ means both chaos and wonton, so think something like a metaphorical primordial meatball.

The god of the Southern Sea was Swift; the god of the Northern Sea was Sudden. The god of the center was Hundun. Swift and Sudden would often meet in the land of Hundun, and Hundun would host them with great courtesy. Swift and Sudden made a plan to return Hundun’s generosity. “All men have seven orifices,” they said, “so that they can see and hear, eat and breathe. Hundun alone has none. Why don’t we bore these for him?”
Each day they bored one orifice and on the seventh day, Hundun died.

Gotta appreciate philosophy that knows how to stick the punchline.

That’s just the bit we think Zhuangzi definitely wrote, but the ‘outer’ and ‘miscellaneous’ chapters have some good stuff. The happiness of fish story from Autumn Floods really sticks with me. The whole chapter on Cutting Satchels is a vicious refutation of the state:

“In taking precautions against thieves who cut open satchels, search bags, and break open boxes, people are sure to cord and fasten them well, and to employ strong bonds and clasps; and in this they are ordinarily said to show their wisdom. When a great thief comes, however, he shoulders the box, lifts up the satchel, carries off the bag, and runs away with them, afraid only that the cords, bonds, and clasps may not be secure; and in this case what was called the wisdom (of the owners) proves to be nothing but a collecting of the things for the great thief.”

this chapter is especially interesting when you compare it in style and subject to Neither Lord Nor Subject.

https://scholarworks.iu.edu/dspace/handle/2022/23427

Here’s a combined translation/commentary from a scholar. It has some important context.

It’s only the ‘Inner’ chapters - this is the section that is generally accepted as written by Master Zhuang himself because it’s “governed by a single creative vision”. The ‘outer’ and ‘miscellanious’ sections still have some great chapters - ‘stealing’ is one of my favorites.

Also, here’s an 8m video of a semi-related daoist text called Neither Lord Nor Master. I find it so relevant. The first sentence is basically: Confucians say heaven ordained authority, but that’s a lie told by people who benefit from oppression. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs23tDAaEho

I think those questions are great, but the answers will always lead to more questions. It is a journey in that regard which I suppose is logically driven. I think the best analogy is asking what is this table. It is made of wood and screws. What is wood made of…fibres. What are the fibre made of, carbon and other atoms. What was the atoms made of….etc. etc. Logic brings you closer to reality, but the closer you get, the more questions you will have which is one of the joys of life.

Not the person you’re asking, but logic tells me that these questions are meaningless so no “coping” required 🤷‍♀️

No one in this thread is here to be converted, do not push your religion on me.

These are not complete sentences.

Did you know that Martin Luther references child molestation in his little paper?
The Catholic Church spends so much resources protecting child molesters that at some point you have to wonder ‘whats the purpose of the church?’

If it was anything more than physical, these things wouldn’t affect consciousness so easily.

We know that it changes perception and behavior, because those are the things we can measure. We have no idea if it affects consciousness, because we don’t even know what that is.

[…] which suggests to me that consciousness must be nothing more than the effects of complex physical systems in our brains.

The problem I have with these studies is that they all test the functions of the brain and its hemispheres, and then argue what the produced consciousness(es) could look like based on some preconceived notion of what a consciousness can an cannot do. But who says that one consciousness cannot make two different choices simultaneously for example? Ofc it’s the best we have right now and imo very interesting and important work, but it’s still nothing like actually “detecting” consciousness and analyzing its properties. The sad truth is that we still have no f*cking clue.

I know that this all sounds very ominous, but that’s kind of the point. Consciousness as I’d define it is not just the mechanical function of the brain, but the experience of being “present”.

George Carlin, live at the Paramount 1992 a special for HBO if I remember correctly.

There are only two major churches which have a valid historical claim to be a direct succession of the original Church, the other one being the Roman Catholic Church. On the major points of contention - the filioque and papal supremacy - I found the history of the early Church to be solidly supporting of the Orthodox view.