deaf_fish

Cataclysm Dark Days Ahead

https://cataclysmdda.org/

Zombie survival roguelike. It’s free, open source, and a mature project.

The Republicans should never have gone down this road in the first place.

I think this is the crutch of our disagreement. My question to you is why? The Republicans want power. They want to turn the US into a Free Market Theocracy. Why shouldn’t they do what they are doing? I personally think what they are doing is bad, but why should they care?

Getting mad at the Democrats for not being good enough to stop that is akin to victim blaming.

I am more interested in your response to my first point, but I couldn’t let this stand. It’s such a bad comparison. Both the Dems and Republicans are fighting for power, they are not a victim and an aggressor, they are both aggressors.

Do you blame the thief, or do you blame the homeowner for not having better locks?

I blame the police for not arresting the thief when they revealed their plans to rob my house before they robbed it.

I don’t think you understand. No reasonable person thinks that republicans are good or not to blame. Blaming the republicans won’t stop them from taking power. They have done and continue to do what they have said they will do and the Democratic party has done nothing to stop them.

It’s like your sky diving, and your parachute fails to open. Do you get upset at gravity or the guy who packed your parachute? Yeah, gravity is what is going to kill you, but it doesn’t care, that was the plan. The guy who packed the parachute is your only real way of controlling the situation.

The Democratic Party packed the parachute and it isn’t opening. Hopefully it does soon.

I don’t get the “take off your shoes” part. Is this a meme I have missed?

A broken clock is right twice a day?

It has its usages. Unfortunately, the market pressures are going to require companies to use them in a way to make investors happy. The average Joe is probably going to have a bad time.

This! You can never “win” or get the last word, but you can get the other person to show how bad their arguments are. You just have to trust that others will decide on what is right correctly.

Maybe try a more formal debate setting? I know there are some places like “the crucible” that facilitate that.

I doubt you will find anything on Lemmy unless you start up a highly moderated community. Even then, people can bring questions against the moderators.

Discussion and debate are pretty lawless in nature.

T Swift: 1.1 billion

Elon: 197.3 billion

I wonder which one of these people more powerful and has more influence?

I mean, it also could be intentional. Some people really do hate women. So the first thing they did after the man/bear thought experiment was to say “Oh look women all think all men are rapists/bad. There is some kind of gender war going on here”. A lot of people I have talked to have chilled out after I ask “Who said that all men are rapists? No one is saying that.” They realize they might not have understood the original issue or have been mislead.

That’s what I like about this meme. The statement is fundamentally true. It is a sub-set of “Feelings are less important than safety”. Anyone who upset about it is either someone who is uninformed or mislead. Orrr someone who wants their to be drama, someone who wants women to be afraid or be victims and/or wants men to be hopeless and upset. If you are just uninformed a quick question can resolve the issue. If it is intentional, a discussion should ensue that make their ideas look a foolish or wacky.

where is this signal coming from?

A very large amount of people who think the result of the man/bear thought experiment means that all men are bad/rapists. I have been arguing with quite a few.

So, I am confused. I thought we disagreed on more. But I think we agree on most things. Am I missing something?

That’s by design. They weren’t interested in writing a good game or getting honest feedback. They wanted everyone to buy it and get money for it.

I appreciate your reply.

they’re not physically safer though, that’s the problem.

I think this kind of misses the point. Women have given us their feelings on the man/bear topic. Which are implicitly valid as all feelings are (from men or women). Telling them that they have done an incorrect assessment of the situation is invalidating their feelings. This of course adds weight against the man category especially how a large group of people got personally offended by a data point. The interesting piece of information here is that women feel less safe with a man than a bear. Not that their feelings are rooted in reality, because they don’t have to be.

The signal the women are getting is that yeah, their feeling don’t matter. If their feelings don’t matter, what else doesn’t matter? Are they going to get “um, actually-ed” when they try to set personal boundaries. Can you see that if a lot of men don’t respect women’s feeling and personal boundaries that it can turn into a physical saftey issue?

To answer your paragraph about what is likely to happen or if the assessment is correct. I don’t care. It’s a roll of the dice. The bear will kill the woman sometime and the man will kill the woman sometimes and other times nothing will happen. I am not a bear scientist nor a sociologist, I don’t have the numbers in front of me. The question of what actually would happen is uninteresting to me as it is a hypothetical. We don’t need to accurately prepare for the man/woman/bare/woods situation, it’s not likely to happen.

I did a quick (probably bad) google and I got this: “1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed, 2.8% attempted).”. from https://www.rainn.org/statistics/scope-problem.

yeah, so then by this logic, women shouldn’t be choosing to be with a bear,

What women are saying, is based on all the information shown to them and what they have gathered on their own. Given a choice between a random man and a random bear. They would chose to be lost in the woods with a bear. They feel physically and emotionally safer with the bear. Is their assessment accurate/correct, who knows?

Does this mean all men are rapists? No, no one has said that.

it doesn’t matter whether they are more/less physically safe around the man over the bear,

I disagree, why would physical saftey not be important? A bear could be happy just leaving them alone and eating berries. A man might decide to do something physically unwanted/dangerous to them.

My point here is that you need to communicate clearly, because otherwise you could be saying literally anything.

I agree, I wish the people who are raging at me and down-voting me would be nice, and tell me what interpretation they have of the statement. Instead I am getting vague feelings posting with no arguments. Thank you for diving into this with me.

i agree, but in this case, the irony here is that we aren’t supposed to care about the feelings of men generically

No one in this conversation has said that. The feelings of men are important. The feelings of women are important. The saftey of men is more important that the feelings of women.The safety of women are more important than the feelings of men. Saying one does not contradict the other.

the point here was that these statements weren’t related at all

I agree, I thought this was a hypothetical, sorry I was wrong.

Men’s feelings can have an effect on the saftey of women. Imagine if the majority of men felt like they were owed sex even if women didn’t want it. These feelings will cause most women to be physically unsafe.

There is no way to argue against a statement like “Women’s safety is more important than men’s feelings”

Yes there is. Show how the statement causes harm. If it is too ambiguous, make it concrete by interpreting it.

“Men’s feelings” and “women’s safety” don’t negate each other,

For the most part you are right (most feelings are not problematic), but there are situations where Men’s feelings do affect women’s safety.

For example. If a Man feels like he deserves sex even if a woman is not interested in having that sex. Another example is if the average man feels like they rightfully control or are better than women. Then that makes that society less safe for women.

But yeah, if a man feel sad because his favorite driver loss the race, that doesn’t harm women. To me, these kinds of feelings were never the issue.

Why don’t you hold the actions of rapists and abusers against rapists and abusers, instead of innocent men who’ve done nothing but try to live their lives and respect the people around them?

I am confused about you got here. Is this post calling you a rapist? I have yet to judge you on anything. I am just trying to understand why this post is getting you so upset. If it turns out this post is upsetting to you because you are a rapist that thinks that women shouldn’t have safety, then your reactions would make sense to me. As of now, I am still confused.

Okay then defend yourself. Do you agree with the statement? Women’s safety is more important than men’s feelings. And for the love of God why?

Make your arguments or be a coward.

Come to join the fun I see! Do you also think that women’s safety is less important than men’s feelings?

Come on coward, what’s your position?

Ladies and gentlemen, this was their response. If they had a better one, they would have used it.

Removed by mod

Yes, it is antagonistic. But is it bad to be antagonistic to people who think that men’s feelings are more important that women’s safety?