andyburke

If you empanel a grand jury and present them with compelling evidence that the president accepted a bribe for a pardon, you could presumably indict them.

From there, you would present this evidence that there was a quid-pro-quo bribe and presumably the defense would move to dismiss under “it was an official act, can’t prosecute”. The judge would then need to decide if there is sufficient evidence to call into question if the act was official, given that the president cannot give an illegal order as an official act. If there’s enough evidence, presumably the judge wouldn’t dismiss and the trial would continue. (If they did dismiss, presumably the prosecution could appeal to a higher level court,)

I am just not clear on why everyone both thinks, and seem to want to think that this has given up the ball game and now the president is a king.

I am trying to argue in good faith. I just don’t agree with you that the president can now do whatever they want. If they could, Biden could order the assassinations of all Republicans sitting in congress, for instance - presuming your reading of this is correct, what’s to stop him? If you think it’s just that he’s not bold enough, perhaps you should call the whitehouse and give your opinion on what he should do with his newfound powers.

Legal orders. The president is bound by Article II, Section 3.

I’m not reading this. Your first sentence is incorrect.

The trial court is supposed to determine if there is sufficient evidence such that is not a mere allegation?

Personally I am ok with courts not being able to deem something unofficial based on allegations rather than on a decision.

Yes, and I sadly had to agree with John Roberts, not a good place to be.

The doomerism is just ridiculous to me.

If you follow an illegal order, guess what you just did: broke the law.

Please, fhis strident unreality being pushed is JUST LIKE the fear mongering on the right.

This decision is by no means great, it may totally delay trials for Trump until after the election, that’s horeshit in my opinion. But I also don’t beleive this bullshit about this ruling making the president a king. Stop FUDing for them. Trump STILL HAS TO FOLLOW THE LAW IF HE IS ELECTED. Please STOP REINFORCING THE IDEA THAT HE DOES NOT.

Please back this up with some quotes from the ruling or something because this is not how I read it.

The reason the president is immune for official acts is to protect people like Obama who ordered extrajudicial killings of American citizens. That is a very grey offical act - these were US citizens in a war zone fighting for the other side. I may not fully agree that that should be protected, but I understand the reasoning around a president feeling free to act (legally) in the best interests of the nation without fear that their actions would lead to legal jeopardy after they leave office.

(To be clear: I would be ok with a trial to decide if Obama’s actions were official, for instance. And if they were deemed not, then he could be tried for those assassinations. Also, to be clear: I am a progressive who would vote for Obama over Trump in a heartbeat.)

I mean, it’s definitely not great. This court is a sham that never should have had this makeup.

And this absolutely makes it harder to bring Trump to trial before the election.

This is not great.

But it is not “the president can assasinate people!!!”

At least, not to this layman. I would hope supreme court justices know better, but even the dissent seems a little unhinged to me, a progressive who thinks the rule of law should AND STILL DOES apply to everyone. (I am also not willing to just give up and say “yeah, guess assassination is legal now” - I think that junk is counterproductive and maybe being propagandized against us by unfriendly foreign governments.)

Article II, Section 3 - the president must take care to execute the laws faithfully. No president meeting the requirements of the office could issue an illegal official order. If the president orders something illegal, it’s necessarily against the oath of office and should not be considered official.

My feeling is that this ruling means any cases brought against the president would need to establish that an act was unofficial before criminal proceedings could proceed. Thay seems fine to me to adjudicate in each case.

Being MAGA and being educated are mutually exclusive.

To believe in MAGA you need to believe there was a time in the past where America was great, but that that time has passed and that somehow there is a way to return to it.

Anyone with decent education realizes the myriad flaws with the very idea the movement is based on.

Article II Section 3 says the president shall take care to execute the laws faithfully. I do not see how a president could issue an official illegal order.

Takes a special kind of French citizen to wear a Nazi cap.

<laughs in dialup connected to gopher>

You just won’t concede that racism exists, and has existed in this country since its founding, will you?

I mean, that’s the crux of the argument.

Either our country’s education system failed you terribly and you’re just incapable of continued learning, or you know fhe history and don’t care.

Are you, too, tired of the rhyming?

These JSON memes got me feeing like some junior dev out there is upset because they haven’t read and understood the docs.

The dismissal of a sexually selected trait just because it usually is far more pronounced in one sex than the other seems extemely premature to me.

I would argue chins are actually already quite different between the sexes - to the point where people will have surgery to change their appearance if their chin doesn’t conform to societal ideals.

Sexually selected trait seems like an avenue of research that shouldn’t be so easily dismissed.

For the operatives put in danger and/or killed, it was worth human life?

You seem to be ignoring that Assange either knowingly or unknowingly risked peoples’ lives, people who had often given those lives into great risk in service of their country.

When the leaks first happened, I was supportive of Wikileaks (a natural position for an anti-war person like me). Later, when it was revealed that there had been no or little due diligence to ensure the information had been vetted and scrubbed, I realized how extreme it can be on both ends of the political spectrum.

Stop trying to paint this with some large political brush.

Assange is not a hero. The US government is not innocent.

Ask them to explain.