There is an immense range of variation in female bodies, and obviously I can’t cover all contingencies. While I hope that everyone can get something from this guide, when I make generalizations about what a female body “is,” I’m talking about an average woman at a healthy weight: not much in the way of muscle mass, and curvy enough to be unmistakably female.
I’m trying to be very careful with my words here, because I don’t believe the author of the guide was. He talked about his personal experience, what he learned from it, and he was kind enough to organize and share everything. That’s all good. He also reinforces and disseminates harmful body issues. And that’s the part that bothered me from the guide’s tittle.
I’m a nonbinary man. I say that to inform my perspective in regards to the subject, where I’m coming from and my limitations. At this point in my life, I don’t have to pass, I have never had to worry about passing or having my identity invalidated by the way I look. I believe that passing is just something we do to be able to exist in society and that our goal should be expressing our identity the best way we can without being chained by societal expectations.
I didn’t want to be negative. I wanted to put a warning for those that would read the guide, but the more I read, the more I can’t recommend people dealing with any body related issues to read. I’ll leave it at that or it’ll become an attack with me quoting everything I find problematic or harmful.
It’s great to not be ‘chained by societal expectations’ - but some people want to look like the traditional American 2023 cisgender man. That’s not being chained by societal expectations, that’s expressing our gender identity the way we want to. Let us have our space and our discussions without subtly acting like being non-binary is morally superior to being binary.
As a transman 3 years on T I don’t even agree with some of his advice, but it’s important for transmen to be able to have these sorts of conversations and give-and-take without everyone breathing down our necks.
Reminds me of an ace poster here the other day who was acting like it’s gross and unfathomable that people are attracted to other people’s bodies. You’re not superior because you’re ace.
I didn’t mean to imply that being non binary is superior. The reason I mentioned it was to show my limitations. I said I had never had to pass to make explicit that I’m speaking without having this experience, without a particular struggle that may be vital to read the author correctly. The chains are the invisible expectations we impose to those around us. I believe in choice, and I believe in the author’s choice. I don’t believe in upsetting people, but I’ll do that from time to time.
Can I ask why you felt the need to comment something so dismissive and negative when you also readily admit that this just isn’t targeted at you? I just want to understand. I don’t think you intend to be hurtful, but that is indeed what’s happening. Having to pass on the binary is a safety issue for a lot of trans people just as much as it’s affirming and euphoric.
As a FTM, I don’t find there to be any specific endorsement of body views in the article. Rather, he is being transparent with who he has in mind, which is extremely helpful to someone like myself. It lets me know how to approach the text for my own use.
I think immediately dismissing the author as harmful merely because he’s exacting in his disclaimers is a disappointing take. If it isn’t applicable to you, that’s fine. Going so far as to lob accusations over body image is pretty rough - more so when you’re not the target audience. Finding good sources speaking to the FTM experience is so rare and it saddens me to see anyone want to tear it down right out of the gate.
I almost didn’t post the comment. There’s always the thought of causing harm by initiating a conversation out of place or being harsh to someone with no malice. I never dismiss someone’s else words. I think about what they said, how I’m interpreting it, what I see and can not see.
As I said before, I don’t want to break down the text and destroy the goodwill just to see if I’m right. If my impression is wrong, I’ll just accept it and move on. It’s definitely not my place to decide.
Hey there - asking this from a place of genuine ignorance and desire to understand more - what exactly does “nonbinary man” mean to you? My understanding of nonbinary gender identities would see this as essentially a contradiction, since I would say that being nonbinary, by definition, means that someone doesn’t identify as a man or a woman.
Feel free to not answer if you don’t feel like diving into a whole discussion about your own identity; I’d totally get it. Just a cis gay dude trying to understand a bit more.
I’m trying to be very careful with my words here, because I don’t believe the author of the guide was. He talked about his personal experience, what he learned from it, and he was kind enough to organize and share everything. That’s all good. He also reinforces and disseminates harmful body issues. And that’s the part that bothered me from the guide’s tittle.
I’m a nonbinary man. I say that to inform my perspective in regards to the subject, where I’m coming from and my limitations. At this point in my life, I don’t have to pass, I have never had to worry about passing or having my identity invalidated by the way I look. I believe that passing is just something we do to be able to exist in society and that our goal should be expressing our identity the best way we can without being chained by societal expectations.
I didn’t want to be negative. I wanted to put a warning for those that would read the guide, but the more I read, the more I can’t recommend people dealing with any body related issues to read. I’ll leave it at that or it’ll become an attack with me quoting everything I find problematic or harmful.
It’s great to not be ‘chained by societal expectations’ - but some people want to look like the traditional American 2023 cisgender man. That’s not being chained by societal expectations, that’s expressing our gender identity the way we want to. Let us have our space and our discussions without subtly acting like being non-binary is morally superior to being binary.
As a transman 3 years on T I don’t even agree with some of his advice, but it’s important for transmen to be able to have these sorts of conversations and give-and-take without everyone breathing down our necks.
Reminds me of an ace poster here the other day who was acting like it’s gross and unfathomable that people are attracted to other people’s bodies. You’re not superior because you’re ace.
I didn’t mean to imply that being non binary is superior. The reason I mentioned it was to show my limitations. I said I had never had to pass to make explicit that I’m speaking without having this experience, without a particular struggle that may be vital to read the author correctly. The chains are the invisible expectations we impose to those around us. I believe in choice, and I believe in the author’s choice. I don’t believe in upsetting people, but I’ll do that from time to time.
Can I ask why you felt the need to comment something so dismissive and negative when you also readily admit that this just isn’t targeted at you? I just want to understand. I don’t think you intend to be hurtful, but that is indeed what’s happening. Having to pass on the binary is a safety issue for a lot of trans people just as much as it’s affirming and euphoric.
As a FTM, I don’t find there to be any specific endorsement of body views in the article. Rather, he is being transparent with who he has in mind, which is extremely helpful to someone like myself. It lets me know how to approach the text for my own use.
I think immediately dismissing the author as harmful merely because he’s exacting in his disclaimers is a disappointing take. If it isn’t applicable to you, that’s fine. Going so far as to lob accusations over body image is pretty rough - more so when you’re not the target audience. Finding good sources speaking to the FTM experience is so rare and it saddens me to see anyone want to tear it down right out of the gate.
I almost didn’t post the comment. There’s always the thought of causing harm by initiating a conversation out of place or being harsh to someone with no malice. I never dismiss someone’s else words. I think about what they said, how I’m interpreting it, what I see and can not see.
As I said before, I don’t want to break down the text and destroy the goodwill just to see if I’m right. If my impression is wrong, I’ll just accept it and move on. It’s definitely not my place to decide.
As a trans man, this is the guide I would have killed to have 10 years ago. I respectfully disagree with your take.
It was written 9 years ago in 2014…. Close to 10, but not quite!
I just meant when I was younger I would have killed for it. I never came across it unfortunately.
Hey there - asking this from a place of genuine ignorance and desire to understand more - what exactly does “nonbinary man” mean to you? My understanding of nonbinary gender identities would see this as essentially a contradiction, since I would say that being nonbinary, by definition, means that someone doesn’t identify as a man or a woman.
Feel free to not answer if you don’t feel like diving into a whole discussion about your own identity; I’d totally get it. Just a cis gay dude trying to understand a bit more.
I bet they meant “male-bodied non-binary person.”