• TallonMetroid@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Because he’s a self-proclaimed Zionist and the end goal of Zionism has always been genocide. Now, why is he a Zionist? shrugs

        • PumpkinSkink@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          The fact is, however, that they impinge— as they always have— on the Arab residents of the territories, and then they have a distinct cutting edge to them. Both in theory and in practice their effectiveness lies in how they Judaize territory coterminously with de-Arabizing it.     There is privileged evidence of this fact, I think, in what Joseph Weitz had to say. From 1932 on, Weitz was the director of the Jewish National Land Fund; in 1965 his diaries and papers, My Diary, and Letters to the Children, were published in Israel. On December 19, 1940, he wrote:

          _“. . . after the Second World War the question of the land of Israel and the question of the Jews would be raised beyond the framework of “ development”; amongst ourselves. !t must be clear that there is no room for hoth peoples in this country. No ‘development’ will bring us closer to our aim. To be an independent people in this small country. If the Arabs leave the country, it will be broad and wide-open for us. And if the Arabs stay, the country will remain narrow and miserable.

          When the War is over and the English have won, and when the judges sit on the throne of Law, our people must bring theirpetitions and their claim before them; and the only solution is Eretz Israel, or at least Western Eretz Israel, without Arabs. There is no room for compromise on this point! The Zionist enterprise so far, in terms of preparing the ground and paving the way for the creation of the Hebrew State in the land of Israel, has been fine and good in its own time, and could do with ‘‘land-buying ’— but this will not bring about the State of Israel; that must come all at once, in the manner of a Salvation (this is the secret of the Messianic idea); and there is no way besides transferring the Arabs from here to the neighboring countries, to transfer them all: except maybe for Bethlehem, Nazareth and Old Jerusalem, we must not leave a singlevillage, not a single tribe. And the transfer must be directed to Iraq, to Syria, and even to Transjordan. For that purpose we’ll find money, and a lot of money. And only with such a transfer will the country be able to absorb millions of our brothers, and the Jewish question shall be solved, once and for all. There is no other way out."_
          

          These are not only prophetic remarks about what was going to happen; they are also policy statements, in which Weitz spoke with the voice of the Zionist consensus. There were literally hundreds of such statements made by Zionists, beginning with Herzl. and when ‘salvation’ came it was with those ideas in mind that the conquest of Palestine, and the eviction of its Arabs, was carried out.

          ~The Question of Palestine, Edward Said

          There’s literally dozens of other quotes like this one from people instrumental in the founding of Israel in this chapter, and they are similarly genocidal. It was honestly pretty transparent what they were going for.

          • kaffiene@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            The existence of Zionists who wish to erase Palestine (of which there are many) does not change the situation.

      • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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        7 months ago

        The end goal of a Jewish homeland has always been genocide of Arabs?

        I suspect that isn’t true but am willing to read whatever you are basing this claim off of.

        • catloaf@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          Well, when you want to establish your homeland somewhere that people are already living, yeah it takes displacement. But they’re not just displacing them, they’re killing them.

              • kaffiene@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                You don’t trust the Google result for defining a word? Really? You think this is an LLM mediated result? Really?

          • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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            7 months ago

            Where else were the survivors of the holocaust credibly being offered the establishment of their own government beside their actual homeland?

            • SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
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              7 months ago

              If being a victim of the Holocaust entitles you to your own government, how comes you’ve never argued for establishing a homeland of the Romani people?

              • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                7 months ago

                What are you suggesting should have been done with the Jewish survivors if returning to their homeland itself is unacceptable to you?

                • SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
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                  7 months ago

                  For a person born in Germany, raised in Germany, taught to speak, read and write German, their homeland is Germany. German Jewish victims of the Holocaust ought to have been extraordinarily repaired, and given the pleasure of seeing their victimizers fallen in disgrace, tried, condemned and punished (part of which did happen), not told to pack their bags and leave to a country they’ve never set a foot in. The idea that someone who’s born in a specific ethnic group has their “homeland” at some special, historical place is an extremely ideological view that has much more to do with nazism than with the ideals of freedom and human rights.

                  By the way, you haven’t answered my question. In your racist worldview that ethnicities belong to specific strips of land, where do the Romani belong?

                  • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                    7 months ago

                    Well, Germany was split in two after the war, and most Jews who survived the holocaust weren’t German Jews, so if we were to send all of European Jews to West Germany, you are still having to deal woth the displacement aspect that you are currently using to build a case for genocide.

                    I’m also going to set aside your childish accusations of racism, because it isn’t true. You willingly chose to enter a discussion, the bare minimum is mutual respect and if you can’t accomplish that, there will be no discussion going forward. As for the Romani people, the Romania’s homeland wasn’t still under British rule, and thus couldn’t offer to have them go back India. I’m not even sure the Romani people wanted to return to India. Is that something they were pushing for or are you just making a hypothetical?

            • barsoap@lemm.ee
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              7 months ago

              of their own government

              Dingdingding and there we have it, antisemitism by calling all Jews zionist.

            • dank@lemmy.today
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              7 months ago

              Ethnic nationalism is just racism, whether practiced by white supremacist MAGA Americans or Holocaust survivors. In a liberal democracy, the government serves all people regardless of race. I’m confused by your premise that Holocaust survivors were entitled to their own ethnic state for some reason.

              Also, the Zionist movement was not a response to the Holocaust. It was a colonial enterprise that began well before the Holocaust in response to widespread persecution especially in Central Europe. Many Jews opposed the Jewish nationalism undergirding Zionism for the same reasons liberals today reject virtually all nationalist movements. Many emigrated to liberal democracies like the United States where they could live free of ethnic discrimination. Zionists instead chose to respond with their own ethnic persecution.

              It is worth recalling in this connection that at the turn of the century, Zionism’s similarities to other projects of colonization were not a source of embarrassment or shame for most of the movement’s adherents; indeed, they often saw them as a selling point. Zionist leaders studied and sought to learn from the experience of European colonial-settlement enterprises in places like Algeria, Rhodesia, and Kenya, and many imagined their own endeavor as similar in certain ways. Moreover, the Zionist movement readily used such terms as “colony,” “colonial,” and “colonization” to refer to its activities; thus, for example, the original name of its financial arm was the Jewish Colonial Trust. It was only later, after the First World War, that colonialism came to have strongly pejorative connotations for many Europeans. As a consequence the Zionist movement sought to dissociate itself from other European projects of colonization and settlement, began to stress the uniqueness and noncolonial character of its mission and methods, and stopped using such terms, at least in languages other than Hebrew.

              Zachary Lockman, Comrades and Enemies: Arab and Jewish Workers in Palestine, 1906-1948 (University of California Press, 1996) 21-57.

              • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                7 months ago

                Why did you respond to a question yet refuse to answer the question?

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          You’re not going to get far using a definition of Zionism that practically vanished after WII and the founding of Israel, least of all in the current climate. Simply not the opportune moment.

          Also already back then there were Zionists who saw it as an explicitly settler-colonial project.

    • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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      7 months ago

      Because the calculation has been made, he will lose more votes from people who support Israel than people who support Palestine because the first ones don’t mind the alternative which will support Israel even more and the second ones will be in deep shit if Trump gets elected so they have no choice.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        That’s what they’re thinking at any rate. Unfortunately in Pennsylvania it doesn’t seem to have been a campaign issue at all for the Pro Palestinian congresswoman and the Arab American demographics in the rust are what got Biden over the line there last time. There’s a serious question as to whether the rust belt is now in play again because of this.

    • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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      7 months ago

      The man is from an era long past, when Israel was the USA’s fault and responsibility, and when it’s presence was necessary to defend against other world powers.

    • Random_Character_A@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Because certain closely knit ethnicity has significant power and wealth in US economy, so neither Republicans or Democrats want to fuck with that setup?