Very weird that I am so old and have literally never heard this mentioned in a TV show or book or movie or anything.
In four out of five states, if you go to prison, you are literally paying for the time you spend there.
As you can guess, this results in crippling debt as soon as you’re released.
The county gets back a fraction of what they hold over your head the rest of your life until you commit suicide(or die naturally and peacefully with the sword of damocles hanging over your head).
$20-$80 a day according to Rutgers.
Counties apparently sue people and employ wage garnishment to get back the money that majority of people obviously cannot pay back.
https://www.rutgers.edu/news/states-unfairly-burdening-incarcerated-people-pay-stay-fees
I read the wiki page. Pretty barebones, but it did link to https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34705968
In theory, I could entertain an argument about having criminals repay some of the costs of dealing with them, that’s not what’s going on here.
The sum that is able to be collected doesn’t go straight into the county coffers, either - the jail contracts with a company
The jail gets 30%, the company gets 70%.
It really just looks like just another way to exploit prisoners for profit.
The very idea is absurd. It is so counter productive to the idea of rehabilitation. The prisons themselves say they aren’t a significant revenue stream. Trying to offset the cost of a societal need by charging fees to prisons doesn’t even make any sense. And the companies that are tasked with collecting this debt get 70% of what they collect which means that even the argument about offsetting the state’s cost doesn’t make sense.
It’s profit seeking, counter productive cruelty and that’s it. Just shameful.
Trying to offset the cost of a societal need by charging fees to prisons (sic) doesn’t even make any sense.
Sure it does. It costs $$$ to build jails and prisons and more $$$ to run them. Why should I, the victim, have to pay twice? (once for my car, which the thief stole, and again in my taxes to fund the legal system once the thief is caught)
I can very much entertain an argument like that (counter-argument, pay prisoners minimum wage for whatever work they do and charge the $20/day from that).
But that’s not what’s going on here.
This is about a collection agency figuring out how to profit from a captive audience. It deserves the same regard from us as prison phone operators do.
It’s really just another form of predatory bullshit.
The prisons themselves say they aren’t a significant revenue stream
This is crucial here, IMO. We could put whatever we want on the bills – hell, we could charge a million dollar fee for each sentence! That would fix the funding problems – but the simple truth is that most of the prisoners don’t have the money.
If the issue was cost, you would build schools. A better educated population get less sick, earns more and thus pays more taxes, commit way less crimes, get less social welfare, in short it is a net gain in tax dollars.
Plus, someone who gets out of jail with a big debt will very likely cost way more to society than what could ever be recovered from them.
the overwhelming majority of inmates are non-violent offenders, often times in prison for the heinous crime of: smoking weed, or some other petty crime
Okay? I don’t understand what point you might be trying to make with this statement, even if it were true.
But the actual figure is 45% for drug offenses. That is the single biggest category, but I find it disingenuous to characterize “less than half” as “overwhelming majority”.
so, here is the fun bit about statistics, when you have more than say, 3-4 different options the thing with almost half generally is an overwhelming majority
No, it’s incredibly misleading. When you said that, I expected to find something like 80% of prisoners are there because of drugs. Instead, I find that it’s less than half.
it’s not misleading at all? half is a REALLY large amount. like i get that this is an issue of humans not having math brains, but imagine if you will:
a bag with 20 marbles, 10 blue, 3yellow, 2red, 2pink, 1green, 1black, and 1 clear.
Just to really fuck up your life when you get out
In particular, to force you back into crime, to be able to pay for that debt.
just declare bankruptcy
Absolutely, I mean I’m already a felon, what’s one more barrier to credit and gainful employment?
@aodhsishaj @metaStatic bankruptcy is by far not the worse thing you can do. Often trying to unbury yourself will take longer to get back to solvency.
We had to medical B out. Get cancer these days, particularly with a $6K+ deductible for a PPO and you’re toast. We managed to switch to a HMO before surgery and we were still toast. And I had a Good Job.
File, get a pre-paid card then some high-interest you barely use, then some “normal” credit and it builds faster than you know
If you think bankruptcy is bad, look at all the rich people and corps that do it as often as possible
Edit: I mean Herr Trumptard has filed no less than six times to avoid paying people
Rich people never pay what they owe, especially if they owe it to the gov’t. Unlike poor people, the police doesn’t knock on their door to get the money.
Believe it or not if you can’t pay… straight to jail
How to absolutely destroy your net worth:
Step 1: go to prison
There is no step 2.
The US is starting to sound made up
I left America over a decade ago due to a laundry list of grievances that I developed while having only ever lived in America.
Once I started living in other countries, I finally developed context to compare my American life with. And it just made things look so much worse than I had previously thought.
And now it feels like not a day can go by without learning some new awful truth about my former home.
It’s unfortunate you left… When good people leave, we’re stuck with more of the bad gaining power.
If we lose this country to the bad people even more than it’s already been lost, then the entire world may pay dearly as a result.
If he left a solid red or blue state, it doesn’t really matter. Our minority representation, first pst the pole voting and electoral college means that a lot of smart people from cities or solid blue areas can leave and nothing will change.
Plus OP’s an outlier, most of us can’t afford to relocate like this.
Where did you go, if you don’t mind me asking? It’s certainly something we’ve talked about…
I hopped around Southeast Asia until I landed in Japan.
It’s not easy here, and it’s not without its own problems, but it works much better for me.
(I’d probably still be in Singapore were it not for the heat. The food is 10/10 and dirt cheap, but I missed seasons.)
(I knew that answering this question would make the jerks upset somehow.)
Do you have to struggle with the insane only work, no life, salary man/woman problems? Or did you find something that doesn’t follow that “life style?”
No, I see it but I don’t have to deal with it.
It’s also not as much of a constant as it used to be.
It was. Everywhere was.
Yes, but the more I live and hear things about the states it starts to sound like satire or as if it’s a joke to see what other people will believe.
You’re just getting older, haha. The longer we live, the more we can’t help seeing what’s right in front of us.
Nah, it’s exactly the other way around. Except for a tiny minority. All the others have to ignore what’s around them in order to not go insane.
I can understand why it seems that way, but the broad American public supports civil and labor liberties, green energy, healthy and equitable policies in general; it’s the vocal minority that is subverting the will of the more fair-minded, rational and compassionate majority(sure would be nice if more than one out of every three or four people voted).
And I don’t even think most conservatives believe in the policies they support so much as they don’t comprehend what they’re supporting and they are afraid of relinquishing control over what they narrowly perceive as “power” and “freedom”.
The ones I’ve talked to don’t.
I feel like most of them only vote R because they’re getting bamboozled into believing that the Rs stand for conservative, Christian, family values.
Anecdotally, ignorance and fear seems to be significant factors supporting conservative beliefs.
When I tell a liberal something that they aren’t expecting or that they didn’t know, they’ll respond with “what? How do you know that? Really?”
Then with a conservative, I usually get “No, no. Really? Well, I don’t know about that, anyway…”
And that’ll be some hard truth or contradicting statistic that the conservative doesn’t want to address or learn about because it will fly in the face of a fear or ignorance based belief.
It’s called the American Dream because you’ve got to be asleep to believe it
Might be somewhat acceptable if a job was available while in prison to support these living expenses. That at least might improve confidence and start the rehabilitation process.
Oh wait, who am I kidding. Prison has nothing to do with rehabilitation.
.
I just heard about that for the first time a few days ago, and I couldn’t believe it was real. As horrible as I think the United States of Ferenginar is, they always manage to surprise me and be worse.
I have to keep asking people not to compare American Capitalists to the Ferengi
The Ferengi have a rule book dictating the ways they are and aren’t allowed to rip you off, American Capitalists would call that level of honesty and integrity Far-Left Socialism
In Oz you get paid a small amount per day so you have some adjustment money when you get out
Oz is better.
Is the far right movement down there getting as bad as it is presented, or is that just the only thing newspapers talk about besides the wildfires?
Nah, we have what we call casual racism, but the real far right intense stuff is a vocal minority. I live in regional NSW and we have a growing immigrant population, largely from Asia and Africa. The colour difference between what was here 5 years ago and now is there if you care to look but honestly it is just people being people for the most part, nobody really seems to care. That said, our billionaires are a major issue and government capture seems inevitably unless major reform goes through.
Best of luck.
I was in and around Melbourne for a few months, and everyone I met seemed very cool, just people being people, so that’s good to hear.
Except, what shocked me over and over again as I traveled, was I always met someone who loved Trump.
Like I was staying with this hippie outside melbourne couchsurfing and he started talking about Trump and Q, and I had no idea what he was talking about at that point, and after I found out what conspiracy theories q was putting forth. I was so confused as to how this hippie wholeheartedly believed in things like pizzagate or the like.
I had a psychiatrist for my ADHD who went off the deep end on Q and Trump. It is entirely possible to get a high end degree without critical thinking skills, so seeing someone with at least 10 years of university, medical school, and specialisation in psychiatry going off the deep end is not impossible, just a bit odd to process.
That said, I think Australians tend to be a little more up front than North Americans, so when someone seems to just spew whatever they are thinking they seem more familiar. That said, someone spewing garbage should not be seen as normal but here we find ourselves I guess.
That’s the beauty of both ruling parties being 100% in support of the prison industrial complex. In fact, our current president even helped usher through the '94 Crime Bill, which keeps prisons nice and full for his golf buddies and institutional donors.
Remember, though, that people, opinions, and political landscapes can change. Yes, Biden was pretty shit back in the 90s, but it actually feels a little bit like he’s trying to move back in the other direction. Don’t gotta forget the bad, but also can’t forget the (attempts at) good
Remember, though, that people, opinions, and political landscapes can change.
Yeah, but Biden hasn’t.
Remember when he mocked ‘Defund the Police’ in his first state of the union address?
He’s an authoritarian. Always has been, and he’s been a reliable vote in favor of every regressive piece of legislation that’s led the country to this point, where fascism is becoming normalized.
Oh, please. If he was an authoritarian, he would behave like Trump or any other authoritarian ruler out there.
Remember when Trump was president? He would kick reporters out of the white house, or tear gas people in front of the white house for a photo op. He said stuff like “I totally won’t do this,” then the very following day, he would do that. His speech was divisive. Should I go on?
Just because Trump was more personally belligerent doesn’t change the fact that Biden is an authoritarian.
You just spotted my flawed argument. True. Biden is not authoritarian, though.
Tell me how is Biden authoritarian, Russian Agent #4557?
Going ad hominem just makes you look sillier.
I asked you a question, Chat GPT spawn. Answer it.
so then vote for trump, right? gtfooh
Oh no! somebody criticized Biden!
criticize him all you want… after he’s elected.
we all hate the either/or state of american politics, but it’s still the reality. live in reality, ppl.
after he’s elected
what?
what don’t you understand about my statement?
You consent to all these issues with your vote for Dems. I on the other hand will express democracy by voting for a candidate that opposes this: Jill Stein.
Biden or Trump winning is a major loss. Instead build a better party instead of complaining.
Biden or Trump winning is a major loss.
They aren’t equal. They’re both shit, but they aren’t equal. And I don’t know about you, but I’d rather keep my right to vote, which is under threat thanks to the likes of Trump.
Instead build a better party instead of complaining.
Not seeing anything you’ve built. All I see is you complaining about Biden and Trump.
If you want better, we need electoral reform. Our current system is mathematically biased against third parties.
you mean to tell me you’re going to vote for jill stein in november? what state do you live in? it better not be a battle ground state
Absolutely, because she is the candidate of the largest party I agree with.
do you understand how american elections work? are you in a battleground state?
I vote third party.
Choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich isn’t very appealing to me.
Also, people like you pretending you didn’t need the votes of people like me is how we got Trump in the first place.
sure. hold humanity hostage because you can’t get exactly what you want, traitor. i’m not going to kiss your ass to vote for practical results. if you’re too blind to see what you’re doing, you can live with the consequences. i have a feeling you have a lot more time left on this planet than i do, junior.
Back on my day prison was a nickle and we liked it.
