By going after the encryption and decryption part rather than the hardware and software emulation part. And having a massive amount of money to spend on lawyers.
Having much greater lawyer force than a couple of developers. Nintendo would win even if they are not right. Or even if not win, those developers would go completely bancrupt for the rest of their lifes because of lawyers costs.
Circumventing DRM is illegal under the DMCA, but the DMCA has an exception saying you’re allowed to ignore parts of the DMCA if it’s for purposes of interoperability between different computer systems. It’s that exception that makes emulators legal in the first place. However, there’s no case law setting a precedent as to whether the DRM circumvention prohibition or interoperability exception wins when both apply.
That means that the decryption is in a grey area if it’s part of an emulator, but definitely illegal if it isn’t.
We also don’t know if this is an argument Nintendo relied on to stop Yuzu. Their initial court documents claimed things like emulators being totally illegal and only invented for piracy, which weren’t true, and they settled out of court, so the public can’t see what the final nail in the coffin was. It could simply be that they’d make Yuzu’s position expensive to defend with spurious delays until they were bankrupt or shut down and gave them all their money, which doesn’t require Nintendo to be legally in the right.
Not long before this, Dolphin’s Steam release was cancelled because Nintendo asked Valve to block it, so the Dolphin team double checked they were entirely above board with their lawyers. Despite Dolphin containing the decryption keys from a real Wii, and using them to decrypt Wii games, they were confident it wasn’t at risk. The keys are an example of a so-called illegal number, but they’re generally believed to not actually be illegal (hence the Wikipedia article about them featuring several examples). The decryption should be safe as the lawyers thought that if push came to shove, the interoperability exception would beat the DRM circumvention prohibition.
The key they used to make the base engine was ripped from online, not made by them that’s the nails in the coffin right there. They also provided means to publicly available bios keys. They did distribute it, you just had to dig into discord or other means to find it, but it was there.
They were forced to settle because they publicly talked about paying shit on discord too…
So they were forced to settle because they did this thing illegally, yet you say they didn’t…? What…?
The key they used to make the base engine was ripped from online
Proof please. Since it never went to court, nothing like this would have been “found” through the process of discovery. I suspect you’re just making shit up.
They also provided means to publicly available bios keys.
Nope, you had to rip your own to use the software.
They did distribute it, you just had to dig into discord or other means to find it, but it was there.
Users chatting on discord != yuzu doing it.
Nothing about Yuzu itself as a program was illegal. Period.
How some of the developers talked in their Discord shows that they were using it for illegal things, which fucked them. Not the application itself.
Look for yourself, they used someone else’s code, it’s technically not illegal according to the CLA of GitHub , but that’s not relevant to DCMA. It requires them to reverse engineer the code for an emulator, which they didn’t do.
The dev provided the means in discord themselves, they also had a google drive with a ripped key, they also had files on discord of roms to test their gamesc which were acquired illegally.
Please tell me what they did right to claim game preservation…?
The fact that it didn’t go to discovery when other cases have is damning in itself, and you want it in your court? Okay….
Look for yourself, they used someone else’s code, it’s technically not illegal according to the CLA of GitHub , but that’s not relevant to DCMA. It requires them to reverse engineer the code for an emulator, which they didn’t do.
Did you read the link you sent? “it’s coded in an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE.”
Hard to steal code when it’s not the language your program is written in. And even if they did… “btw the entire basis for this claim is a reddit post from 3 years ago with the “stolen code” in question being ~50 lines of minor gui fixes” Doesn’t sound like a whole lot of emulation code is in question here.
The dev provided the means in discord themselves, they also had a google drive with a ripped key, they also had files on discord of roms to test their gamesc which were acquired illegally.
Provide ANY evidence of this please. I don’t participate in Discord. So just stating that they published shit there doesn’t mean much to me.
Please tell me what they did right to claim game preservation…?
I don’t have to. Emulation is 100% covered REGARDLESS of what they did “right” or “wrong”. It’s other actions that caused them to settle. Not YUZU as a program.
The fact that it didn’t go to discovery when other cases have is damning in itself, and you want it in your court? Okay….
No it doesn’t. It doesn’t mean a damn thing. What the fuck are you high on?
It has nothing to do with some made up CLA that GitHub doesn’t even have ರ_ರ , it’s a matter of the license the project is under. Which is open source, e.g. GPL, Apache, MIT, etc. all of which doesn’t prevent the use of the code in other open source projects, especially when consent was already given before hand.
…but that’s not relevant to DCMA.
You bet your ass it isn’t, because the code from Ryujinx doesn’t infringe on Nintendo copyright either.
DCMA
It’s DMCA.
… It requires them to reverse engineer the code for an emulator, which they didn’t do.
How the shit do you think emulators are created without reverse engineering? You can’t be serious.
Please tell me what they did right to claim game preservation…?
They used clean room reverse engineering which is a form of independent creation and already has decades of precedent in its favor.
They were forced to settle because they pirated TOTK ahead of its actual release to allow yuzu to support it, then sold that version that supported it on patreon -> “Made money off it” in nintendo’s eyes. I think it’s fucking stupid that they’re gone, but I’m not surprised, Nintendo happily goes after anything.
Nothing illegal was mentioned there on the emulation side. TOTK is a rom in this specific instance. A Rip of a cartridge, which considering how early it was obtained must have been ripped from a cartridge by somebody (probably on the distribution chain or even from someone inside Nintendo). The system keys didn’t change to support that ROM. They were dumb and advertised support for something that they shouldn’t even have which (probably) to Nintendo proves piracy by the devs as they shouldn’t have been able to obtain the rom.
Nothing about this is how YUZU itself operates as a program. It’s not an illegal emulator and you need to stop spouting this nonsense.
For a “legal” emulator making money they sure didn’t put up a fight, I wonder why the other emulators are doing so and without the money that yuzu illegally pulled in? Maybe because yuzu wasn’t what you thought…?
You literally say they did shit wrong, then in the same breath defend them. This is hilarious. For someone who apparently did nothing wrong, they rolled over hella fast, that doesn’t make you question what they actually did…? Here’s the clue, the lawyers told them they were fucked, settle before discovery or you’re worse than screwed. There’s no way to prove any of this obviously, but it’s the only scenario that makes a shred of sense given the circumstances.
If so then how did Nintendo manage to take down yuzu?
By going after the encryption and decryption part rather than the hardware and software emulation part. And having a massive amount of money to spend on lawyers.
Having much greater lawyer force than a couple of developers. Nintendo would win even if they are not right. Or even if not win, those developers would go completely bancrupt for the rest of their lifes because of lawyers costs.
Couldn’t they outsource that decryption part to someone who is more grey area and incognito than the emulator devs?
Just make it possible to add this to the Emu and focus their development on the emu itself
Circumventing DRM is illegal under the DMCA, but the DMCA has an exception saying you’re allowed to ignore parts of the DMCA if it’s for purposes of interoperability between different computer systems. It’s that exception that makes emulators legal in the first place. However, there’s no case law setting a precedent as to whether the DRM circumvention prohibition or interoperability exception wins when both apply.
That means that the decryption is in a grey area if it’s part of an emulator, but definitely illegal if it isn’t.
We also don’t know if this is an argument Nintendo relied on to stop Yuzu. Their initial court documents claimed things like emulators being totally illegal and only invented for piracy, which weren’t true, and they settled out of court, so the public can’t see what the final nail in the coffin was. It could simply be that they’d make Yuzu’s position expensive to defend with spurious delays until they were bankrupt or shut down and gave them all their money, which doesn’t require Nintendo to be legally in the right.
Not long before this, Dolphin’s Steam release was cancelled because Nintendo asked Valve to block it, so the Dolphin team double checked they were entirely above board with their lawyers. Despite Dolphin containing the decryption keys from a real Wii, and using them to decrypt Wii games, they were confident it wasn’t at risk. The keys are an example of a so-called illegal number, but they’re generally believed to not actually be illegal (hence the Wikipedia article about them featuring several examples). The decryption should be safe as the lawyers thought that if push came to shove, the interoperability exception would beat the DRM circumvention prohibition.
Nintendo would target the easiest target, which would still be yuzu
They didn’t. Nintendo and Yuzu came to an agreement and settled out of court.
They settled because they used an illegal key instead of making their own, which is the only legal way to do this for game preservation.
Incorrect. You had to rip that key for yourself. They never distributed it.
They settled because there’s no winning for them. Even if they’re correct (and they really are) it will be years of litigation… and costs.
They were forced to settle because they publicly talked about playing shit [pre-release] on discord too…
Edit: Found a typo. My bad.
The key they used to make the base engine was ripped from online, not made by them that’s the nails in the coffin right there. They also provided means to publicly available bios keys. They did distribute it, you just had to dig into discord or other means to find it, but it was there.
So they were forced to settle because they did this thing illegally, yet you say they didn’t…? What…?
Proof please. Since it never went to court, nothing like this would have been “found” through the process of discovery. I suspect you’re just making shit up.
Nope, you had to rip your own to use the software.
Users chatting on discord != yuzu doing it.
Nothing about Yuzu itself as a program was illegal. Period. How some of the developers talked in their Discord shows that they were using it for illegal things, which fucked them. Not the application itself.
https://twitter.com/Zetta_330/status/1765081419687371165
Look for yourself, they used someone else’s code, it’s technically not illegal according to the CLA of GitHub , but that’s not relevant to DCMA. It requires them to reverse engineer the code for an emulator, which they didn’t do.
The dev provided the means in discord themselves, they also had a google drive with a ripped key, they also had files on discord of roms to test their gamesc which were acquired illegally.
Please tell me what they did right to claim game preservation…?
The fact that it didn’t go to discovery when other cases have is damning in itself, and you want it in your court? Okay….
Did you read the link you sent? “it’s coded in an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE.”
Hard to steal code when it’s not the language your program is written in. And even if they did… “btw the entire basis for this claim is a reddit post from 3 years ago with the “stolen code” in question being ~50 lines of minor gui fixes” Doesn’t sound like a whole lot of emulation code is in question here.
Provide ANY evidence of this please. I don’t participate in Discord. So just stating that they published shit there doesn’t mean much to me.
I don’t have to. Emulation is 100% covered REGARDLESS of what they did “right” or “wrong”. It’s other actions that caused them to settle. Not YUZU as a program.
No it doesn’t. It doesn’t mean a damn thing. What the fuck are you high on?
Have they blocked you yet?
You realise that Nintendo’s coffers are quite huge and they can just bleed out the Devs of yuzu if it had gone to court?
It has nothing to do with some made up CLA that GitHub doesn’t even have ರ_ರ , it’s a matter of the license the project is under. Which is open source, e.g. GPL, Apache, MIT, etc. all of which doesn’t prevent the use of the code in other open source projects, especially when consent was already given before hand.
You bet your ass it isn’t, because the code from Ryujinx doesn’t infringe on Nintendo copyright either.
It’s DMCA.
How the shit do you think emulators are created without reverse engineering? You can’t be serious.
They used clean room reverse engineering which is a form of independent creation and already has decades of precedent in its favor.
They were forced to settle because they pirated TOTK ahead of its actual release to allow yuzu to support it, then sold that version that supported it on patreon -> “Made money off it” in nintendo’s eyes. I think it’s fucking stupid that they’re gone, but I’m not surprised, Nintendo happily goes after anything.
So they used illegal keys to test their illegal emulator……… you just agreed to everything I’ve stated.
Nothing illegal was mentioned there on the emulation side. TOTK is a rom in this specific instance. A Rip of a cartridge, which considering how early it was obtained must have been ripped from a cartridge by somebody (probably on the distribution chain or even from someone inside Nintendo). The system keys didn’t change to support that ROM. They were dumb and advertised support for something that they shouldn’t even have which (probably) to Nintendo proves piracy by the devs as they shouldn’t have been able to obtain the rom.
Nothing about this is how YUZU itself operates as a program. It’s not an illegal emulator and you need to stop spouting this nonsense.
For a “legal” emulator making money they sure didn’t put up a fight, I wonder why the other emulators are doing so and without the money that yuzu illegally pulled in? Maybe because yuzu wasn’t what you thought…?
You literally say they did shit wrong, then in the same breath defend them. This is hilarious. For someone who apparently did nothing wrong, they rolled over hella fast, that doesn’t make you question what they actually did…? Here’s the clue, the lawyers told them they were fucked, settle before discovery or you’re worse than screwed. There’s no way to prove any of this obviously, but it’s the only scenario that makes a shred of sense given the circumstances.