Without getting too /r/atheism, it is funny to see the lengths many Christian scholars will go to try and justify that line.
“Oh, well they were probably actually referring to this giant arch that might have once been translated as “the eye of the needle”, meaning that they were saying it’s really easy to get into heaven”
Like what the fuck? What do you guys think is the point of the passage then?
And these aren’t like yokels and grifters. They’re like PhDs in Christian Theology. The religion at a point is just almost entirely concerned with making up translations and it literally always has been
Lust and gluttony and envy fall under greed. You could also argue sloth for greed of sleep. Wrath and pride are the only two that don’t fall under the greed category.
Christians love to do this thing where they pretend each verse, taken completely out of context, stands on its own. Seems to be especially popular with American evangelicals.
In fact, they like to think that the verses only make sense out of context. No matter how many other verses you can cite across multiple books where Christ makes it clear He’s commanding you to abandon the idea of worldly, material possessions and dedicate yourself and your wealth to helping other people and spreading the word, they’ll go “No it was just a gate” and keep not doing what Christ told them to while pretending to be Christians.
Yeah, it’s pretty unambiguous. Jesus tells the rich boy that came to him to give away all their possessions and let the Lord clothe them as he does the birds and flowers. Rich boy gets real sad and goes away.
No. Many of them aren’t. I get the jab, but I think reducing everyone who has strange or perplexing, even illogical views to just being “an idiot or a grifter” isn’t productive.
We’re not talking about people who have an academic interest in Christian mythology in the way that there are people who have academic interests in Egyptian mythology or Norse mythology. We’re talking about people who believe the myths as divine truth. It’s like if I had a PhD in Norse mythology, and I thought I was going to Valhalla, a real place.
In the US at least, and elsewhere for sure, Christian nationalism partnered with fascism is on a very steep rise. This is a “bad thing,” and I experience exactly zero shame in standing against people who are already trampling the rights and agency of so very many people based on religious views.
Ok. That’s fine. Perhaps instead of viewing them entirely in ways that allow you to look down your nose at them you could instead try to understand them and find out what systems lead to religious beliefs - including religious belief in people who are objectively smarter than you are.
You don’t help anyone by treating them entirely in this sneering, beneath you way. It might make you feel better about yourself, but it doesn’t actually help any of the people you profess to actually care about.
… you could instead try to understand them and find out what systems lead to religious beliefs …
Been doing that already a long time, thanks for assuming I haven’t.
… including religious belief in people who are objectively smarter than you are.
Isaac Newton is a wonderful example. Absolutely brilliant in so many ways, and absolutely wrong in others. Just because someone is “smart(er than me)” doesn’t mean that they’re always right and I’m always wrong.
Somebody wants to be religious, have theistic views? That’s fine, I don’t care. I think they’re wrong, but I don’t care. I believe that people who put so much into it that they get accredited (why?) degrees in their beliefs (ones that I think are wrong, as previously mentioned) are well beyond just “being religious” and deep into fantasy indulgement. I also believe that there is a great deal of overlap between such people and those who want government to adhere to a specific set of religious rules or laws.
You don’t help anyone by treating them entirely in this sneering, beneath you way.
Maybe this is simply a problem of world experience. You seem to have a view of religious scholars that does not align with reality, including not being able to comprehend why someone would want to receive a degree in religious studies.
It’s a lack of empathy and experience that drives you on this issue. Try to have a conversation with some of these individuals before indulging yourself
okay, but you can look at the specific perplexing or illogical view when making that judgment and if that specific illogical view is designed to promote your own wealth the needle on the bullshitometer moves a bit closer to “grifter”
Well it’s pretty easy to get around even without the translation mental gymnastics, you just have to ask for forgiveness before you die and put the church as the only beneficiary in your will.
Without getting too /r/atheism, it is funny to see the lengths many Christian scholars will go to try and justify that line.
“Oh, well they were probably actually referring to this giant arch that might have once been translated as “the eye of the needle”, meaning that they were saying it’s really easy to get into heaven”
Like what the fuck? What do you guys think is the point of the passage then?
And these aren’t like yokels and grifters. They’re like PhDs in Christian Theology. The religion at a point is just almost entirely concerned with making up translations and it literally always has been
Kind of how they only focus on half of the definition of Gluttony and ignore how it also means excessive Greed.
Which is besides the point because Greed is already one of the deadly sins in it’s own right.
I find most of the seven sins redundant.
Lust and gluttony and envy fall under greed. You could also argue sloth for greed of sleep. Wrath and pride are the only two that don’t fall under the greed category.
Especially when the next couple of verses explains it.
Christians love to do this thing where they pretend each verse, taken completely out of context, stands on its own. Seems to be especially popular with American evangelicals.
In fact, they like to think that the verses only make sense out of context. No matter how many other verses you can cite across multiple books where Christ makes it clear He’s commanding you to abandon the idea of worldly, material possessions and dedicate yourself and your wealth to helping other people and spreading the word, they’ll go “No it was just a gate” and keep not doing what Christ told them to while pretending to be Christians.
Yeah, it’s pretty unambiguous. Jesus tells the rich boy that came to him to give away all their possessions and let the Lord clothe them as he does the birds and flowers. Rich boy gets real sad and goes away.
They’re not?
No. Many of them aren’t. I get the jab, but I think reducing everyone who has strange or perplexing, even illogical views to just being “an idiot or a grifter” isn’t productive.
Ah right - they’re the griftees, having paid a fuckton of money for a PhD in “Christian Theology.”
I guess so. It’s still a bizarrely reductive and self serving viewpoint, but whatever helps you.
We’re not talking about people who have an academic interest in Christian mythology in the way that there are people who have academic interests in Egyptian mythology or Norse mythology. We’re talking about people who believe the myths as divine truth. It’s like if I had a PhD in Norse mythology, and I thought I was going to Valhalla, a real place.
In the US at least, and elsewhere for sure, Christian nationalism partnered with fascism is on a very steep rise. This is a “bad thing,” and I experience exactly zero shame in standing against people who are already trampling the rights and agency of so very many people based on religious views.
Ok. That’s fine. Perhaps instead of viewing them entirely in ways that allow you to look down your nose at them you could instead try to understand them and find out what systems lead to religious beliefs - including religious belief in people who are objectively smarter than you are.
You don’t help anyone by treating them entirely in this sneering, beneath you way. It might make you feel better about yourself, but it doesn’t actually help any of the people you profess to actually care about.
Been doing that already a long time, thanks for assuming I haven’t.
Isaac Newton is a wonderful example. Absolutely brilliant in so many ways, and absolutely wrong in others. Just because someone is “smart(er than me)” doesn’t mean that they’re always right and I’m always wrong.
Somebody wants to be religious, have theistic views? That’s fine, I don’t care. I think they’re wrong, but I don’t care. I believe that people who put so much into it that they get accredited (why?) degrees in their beliefs (ones that I think are wrong, as previously mentioned) are well beyond just “being religious” and deep into fantasy indulgement. I also believe that there is a great deal of overlap between such people and those who want government to adhere to a specific set of religious rules or laws.
I sense some projection here.
Maybe this is simply a problem of world experience. You seem to have a view of religious scholars that does not align with reality, including not being able to comprehend why someone would want to receive a degree in religious studies.
It’s a lack of empathy and experience that drives you on this issue. Try to have a conversation with some of these individuals before indulging yourself
okay, but you can look at the specific perplexing or illogical view when making that judgment and if that specific illogical view is designed to promote your own wealth the needle on the bullshitometer moves a bit closer to “grifter”
You lost track of where the conversation went. I am talking specifically about religious academics
Well it’s pretty easy to get around even without the translation mental gymnastics, you just have to ask for forgiveness before you die and put the church as the only beneficiary in your will.