Romans 3:10-12 ESV
[10] as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; [11] no one understands; no one seeks for God. [12] All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
[23] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
John 3:16 ESV
[16] “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
1 Timothy 1:15 ESV
[15] The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
Acts 16:31 ESV
[31] And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Romans 8:1-2 ESV
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [2] For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
On relationship:
Matthew 18:19-20 ESV
[19] Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. [20] For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”
Romans 8:26-27 ESV
[26] Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. [27] And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Romans 8:34-35 ESV
[34] Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. [35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
Are you aware that you have used the Bible to explain your belief in the Bible?
As I understand your reply, you believe you have a relationship with Jesus because you believe he exists, and that relationship will continue forever after you die.
You believe this because it says so in the Bible.
I know this is difficult to admit to yourself, I’ve seen it in others, but this is circular reasoning.
It’s difficult to admit because we as humans are able to compartmentalise two opposing things in our mind at the same time. You can have a belief based on circular reasoning, and at the same time you can know that circular reasoning is not a good way to come to a conclusion on which to base a belief.
It’s your job as a Christian to make sure that your belief is true. By only looking at the Bible, you are failing in this endeavour.
“The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.” Proverbs 14:15
“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” 1 Thessalonians 5:21
And Christianity is what you believe in. If you’re telling me that the source of your beliefs is the reason for your beliefs, well, that’s not a good way to know things.
I know this isn’t easy, having your belief system exposed as untrustworthy. You can double down of course, which will make you feel better. Unfortunately it won’t change reality.
No, I asked where in Christianity the idea comes from. You used doctrine to answer me, which is fine, but by doing so you revealed that your beliefs are derived from a book that tells you to have those beliefs.
I pointed this out to you because it’s a problem, for you and for everyone else. We as humans should strive to make sure that the things we know are true, otherwise we get into all sorts of problems both as individuals and as a species.
but by doing so you revealed that your beliefs are derived from a book that tells you to have those beliefs.
You do realise that is not an argument at all? That’s like saying
“how do you know how to build this ikea bookshelf”
“I read the instructions”
“But you cannot use the instructions to prove that you are in possession of the ikea bookshelf”
You didn’t ask me why I believed in Christianity. You asked me to specify what parts of Christianity said that salvation is free and then got upset when I referenced letters from the Bible, which is THE collection of documents about Christianity.
I feel like you weren’t actually wanting to reason with this, and were just looking for a way to get me to quote Scripture so you could accuse me of circular reasoning and use your napkin image.
That’s like saying “how do you know how to build this ikea bookshelf” “I read the instructions” “But you cannot use the instructions to prove that you are in possession of the ikea bookshelf”
It really isn’t, it’s more like this -
“Why do you think you have an IKEA bookshelf, there really isn’t any good reason to think so?”
“I have this instruction manual and it says I have one because it says so. That’s good enough for me.”
You can see how this looks from where I’m standing?
I asked in good faith, it’s not in my nature to bait people. You’re welcome to your opinion but it was your answer which caused me to go down that route. And please, no-one is upset here. If you really wanted to have a conversation, perhaps quoting scripture wasn’t the best way to go about it.
You never asked me why I believed in Christianity. You asked me where in Christianity a specific doctrine was mentioned.
It’s a relationship with and eternal security in Christ.
I’m honestly very curious where this concept actually comes from. Would you be kind enough to help me pinpoint which part of Christianity suggests this, specifically?
My favourite thing about that video is that it uses deception and misrepresentation and lies (Come on, it even refers to Bart Ehrman as a “pious protestant”), exact tools satan would use 😂. It does capture satan’s personality perfectly though, pretending to be the good guy.
Woa, never met anyone who actually took Christianity that literal. That must be a wild experience to believe in literal devil and god, sin and all that stuff - that’s a trip and a half. Kind of speechless - that’s just wild.
I don’t think that was a very charitable comment. I haven’t anyone that believes in the Bible in a literal way either. I’ve heard people say the stories are mostly allegory and to practice the message of the Bible and the like.
Romans 3:10-12 ESV [10] as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; [11] no one understands; no one seeks for God. [12] All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” [23] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
John 3:16 ESV [16] “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
1 Timothy 1:15 ESV [15] The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
Acts 16:31 ESV [31] And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Romans 8:1-2 ESV [1] There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [2] For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
On relationship:
Matthew 18:19-20 ESV [19] Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. [20] For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”
Romans 8:26-27 ESV [26] Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. [27] And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Romans 8:34-35 ESV [34] Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. [35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
Thanks for the reply.
Are you aware that you have used the Bible to explain your belief in the Bible?
As I understand your reply, you believe you have a relationship with Jesus because you believe he exists, and that relationship will continue forever after you die.
You believe this because it says so in the Bible.
I know this is difficult to admit to yourself, I’ve seen it in others, but this is circular reasoning.
It’s difficult to admit because we as humans are able to compartmentalise two opposing things in our mind at the same time. You can have a belief based on circular reasoning, and at the same time you can know that circular reasoning is not a good way to come to a conclusion on which to base a belief.
It’s your job as a Christian to make sure that your belief is true. By only looking at the Bible, you are failing in this endeavour.
“The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.” Proverbs 14:15
“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” 1 Thessalonians 5:21
You asked for Christian doctrine… What else did you want me to use? You said “pinpoint where in Christianity”.
And Christianity is what you believe in. If you’re telling me that the source of your beliefs is the reason for your beliefs, well, that’s not a good way to know things.
I know this isn’t easy, having your belief system exposed as untrustworthy. You can double down of course, which will make you feel better. Unfortunately it won’t change reality.
You never asked me for my reason, you asked me for Christian doctrine, then acted like you asked for my reason in the first place.
No, I asked where in Christianity the idea comes from. You used doctrine to answer me, which is fine, but by doing so you revealed that your beliefs are derived from a book that tells you to have those beliefs.
I pointed this out to you because it’s a problem, for you and for everyone else. We as humans should strive to make sure that the things we know are true, otherwise we get into all sorts of problems both as individuals and as a species.
What you are doing is basically accepting this -
You do realise that is not an argument at all? That’s like saying “how do you know how to build this ikea bookshelf” “I read the instructions” “But you cannot use the instructions to prove that you are in possession of the ikea bookshelf”
You didn’t ask me why I believed in Christianity. You asked me to specify what parts of Christianity said that salvation is free and then got upset when I referenced letters from the Bible, which is THE collection of documents about Christianity.
I feel like you weren’t actually wanting to reason with this, and were just looking for a way to get me to quote Scripture so you could accuse me of circular reasoning and use your napkin image.
I think you’ve missed the point, but that’s ok.
It really isn’t, it’s more like this -
“Why do you think you have an IKEA bookshelf, there really isn’t any good reason to think so?”
“I have this instruction manual and it says I have one because it says so. That’s good enough for me.”
You can see how this looks from where I’m standing?
I asked in good faith, it’s not in my nature to bait people. You’re welcome to your opinion but it was your answer which caused me to go down that route. And please, no-one is upset here. If you really wanted to have a conversation, perhaps quoting scripture wasn’t the best way to go about it.
You never asked me why I believed in Christianity. You asked me where in Christianity a specific doctrine was mentioned.
Is it possible for you to explain without referencing the Bible?
Nope
My favourite thing about that video is that it uses deception and misrepresentation and lies (Come on, it even refers to Bart Ehrman as a “pious protestant”), exact tools satan would use 😂. It does capture satan’s personality perfectly though, pretending to be the good guy.
Wait dude, I just realized - do you also believe in the literal Satan?
I’m a Christian… So yes…
Woa, never met anyone who actually took Christianity that literal. That must be a wild experience to believe in literal devil and god, sin and all that stuff - that’s a trip and a half. Kind of speechless - that’s just wild.
Do suppose the only “Christian” you know is Schrödinger’s Catholic 😂 You mustn’t get out much
I don’t think that was a very charitable comment. I haven’t anyone that believes in the Bible in a literal way either. I’ve heard people say the stories are mostly allegory and to practice the message of the Bible and the like.