Yes, sometimes labels are too constrictive, and not perfect for everyone. But when people say queer people are obsessed with labels, or “I’m not cis; I’m normal”, what they’re almost certainly taking issue with is non-cisheteronormativity being recognized and validated. When the only labels are normal and not normal, it’s much easier to silence and marginalize those you believe are outside the norm.
Yeah I agree, orange shirt in the comic is being needlessly dismissive. Like of course queer people are often obsessed with labels, we’ve typically been deprived of models and community so finding that in a label is going to be exciting. And for some other queer people, labels can feel restrictive, reminding them of the rigidity of the cisheteronormative mold they’re trying to escape in the first place.
Labels can be empowering for some and restrictive for others and that’s fine, as long as we all respect each other. Like I’ve had people try to prescribe specific gender labels onto me when I’m more comfortable leaving it at non-binary, that’s not cool, just like it would be lame of me not to respect when someone says they’re genderfluid or any other more specific label under the non-binary umbrella.
I disagree; I think there’s a huge middle ground you’re ignoring.
“Everyone should be treated equally” is a pretty simple concept that a lot of (maybe even a majority of) people agree with. It’s possible to fully subscribe to that ideology while also thinking that the explosion of labels that gen z is infatuated with is silly.
The rhetoric I described is absolutely being weaponized against people. If you follow the reason behind the arugment that someone is “normal, not cis”, then you would then conclude that trans and nb people are not normal. Anyone who accepts that argument would likely conclude that not only are trans women not “normal women”, and trans men not “normal men”, but that they are not actually real women or men.
As for gen z being infatuated with labels, I will admit I don’t understand many of them, but I’m fine with them if they help people communicate their identity better. I wouldn’t claim that any labels are redundant or just attention seeking without any actual evidence or reasoning behind it.
I’m taking issue with your first example, not your second. There’s a world of difference.
But when people say queer people are obsessed with labels […] what they’re almost certainly taking issue with is non-cisheteronormativity being recognized and validated.
I think that I don’t want people calling me cis and I don’t want to talk about it. I also think that if labels help someone else out I will use whatever pronouns they prefer.
Its just like, what other word should we use than cisgender? We can say people whose gender matches their one assigned at birth I guess but that gets annoying. In certain contexts the cisgender label just makes discussion easier.
I think there’s a distinction that can and should be drawn between descriptors and labels. Most people fit the descriptor “cisgender” but you’ll be hard-pressed to find someone using it as an identity label.
Likewise, looking at definitions, non-binary genders are usually included under the trans umbrella, but many non-binary folks, myself included, don’t necessarily use trans as a label. If someone is talking about the trans community, I still relate and feel included in the conversation, but I don’t use the word as a label for myself.
Yes, sometimes labels are too constrictive, and not perfect for everyone. But when people say queer people are obsessed with labels, or “I’m not cis; I’m normal”, what they’re almost certainly taking issue with is non-cisheteronormativity being recognized and validated. When the only labels are normal and not normal, it’s much easier to silence and marginalize those you believe are outside the norm.
Yeah I agree, orange shirt in the comic is being needlessly dismissive. Like of course queer people are often obsessed with labels, we’ve typically been deprived of models and community so finding that in a label is going to be exciting. And for some other queer people, labels can feel restrictive, reminding them of the rigidity of the cisheteronormative mold they’re trying to escape in the first place.
Labels can be empowering for some and restrictive for others and that’s fine, as long as we all respect each other. Like I’ve had people try to prescribe specific gender labels onto me when I’m more comfortable leaving it at non-binary, that’s not cool, just like it would be lame of me not to respect when someone says they’re genderfluid or any other more specific label under the non-binary umbrella.
I disagree; I think there’s a huge middle ground you’re ignoring.
“Everyone should be treated equally” is a pretty simple concept that a lot of (maybe even a majority of) people agree with. It’s possible to fully subscribe to that ideology while also thinking that the explosion of labels that gen z is infatuated with is silly.
The rhetoric I described is absolutely being weaponized against people. If you follow the reason behind the arugment that someone is “normal, not cis”, then you would then conclude that trans and nb people are not normal. Anyone who accepts that argument would likely conclude that not only are trans women not “normal women”, and trans men not “normal men”, but that they are not actually real women or men.
As for gen z being infatuated with labels, I will admit I don’t understand many of them, but I’m fine with them if they help people communicate their identity better. I wouldn’t claim that any labels are redundant or just attention seeking without any actual evidence or reasoning behind it.
I’m taking issue with your first example, not your second. There’s a world of difference.
This statement I think is incorrect.
I think that I don’t want people calling me cis and I don’t want to talk about it. I also think that if labels help someone else out I will use whatever pronouns they prefer.
Its just like, what other word should we use than cisgender? We can say people whose gender matches their one assigned at birth I guess but that gets annoying. In certain contexts the cisgender label just makes discussion easier.
I think there’s a distinction that can and should be drawn between descriptors and labels. Most people fit the descriptor “cisgender” but you’ll be hard-pressed to find someone using it as an identity label.
Likewise, looking at definitions, non-binary genders are usually included under the trans umbrella, but many non-binary folks, myself included, don’t necessarily use trans as a label. If someone is talking about the trans community, I still relate and feel included in the conversation, but I don’t use the word as a label for myself.