hey folks, we’ll be quick and to the point with this one:

we have made the decision to defederate from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works. we recognize this is hugely inconvenient for a wide variety of reasons, but we think this is a decision we need to take immediately. the remainder of the post details our thoughts and decision-making on why this is necessary.

we have been concerned with how sustainable the explosion of new users on Lemmy is–particularly with federation in mind–basically since it began. i have already related how difficult dealing with the explosion has been just constrained to this instance for us four Admins, and increasingly we’re being confronted with external vectors we have to deal with that have further stressed our capabilities (elaborated on below).

an unfortunate reality we’ve also found is we just don’t have the tools or the time here to parse out all the good from all the bad. all we have is a nuke and some pretty rudimentary mod powers that don’t scale well. we have a list of improvements we’d like to see both on the moderation side of Lemmy and federation if at all possible–but we’re unanimous in the belief that we can’t wait on what we want to be developed here. separately, we want to do this now, while the band-aid can be ripped off with substantially less pain.

aside from/complementary to what’s mentioned above, our reason for defederating, by and large, boils down to:

  • these two instances’ open registration policy, which is extremely problematic for us given how federation works and how trivial it makes trolling, harassment, and other undesirable behavior;
  • the disproportionate number of moderator actions we take against users of these two instances, and the general amount of time we have to dedicate to bad actors on those two instances;
  • our need to preserve not only a moderated community but a vibe and general feeling this is actually a safe space for our users to participate in;
  • and the reality that fulfilling our ethos is simply not possible when we not only have to account for our own users but have to account for literally tens of thousands of new, completely unvetted users, some of whom explicitly see spaces like this as desirable to troll and disrupt and others of whom simply don’t care about what our instance stands for

as Gaywallet puts it, in our discussion of whether to do this:

There’s a lot of soft moderating that happens, where people step in to diffuse tense situations. But it’s not just that, there’s a vibe that comes along with it. Most people need a lot of trust and support to open up, and it’s really hard to trust and support who’s around you when there are bad actors. People shut themselves off in various ways when there’s more hostility around them. They’ll even shut themselves off when there’s fake nice behavior around. There’s a lot of nuance in modding a community like this and it’s not just where we take moderator actions- sometimes people need to step in to diffuse, to negotiate, to help people grow. This only works when everyone is on the same page about our ethos and right now we can’t even assess that for people who aren’t from our instance, so we’re walking a tightrope by trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. That isn’t sustainable forever and especially not in the face of massive growth on such a short timeframe.

Explicitly safe spaces in real life typically aren’t open to having strangers walk in off the street, even if they have a bouncer to throw problematic people out. A single negative interaction might require a lot of energy to undo.

and, to reiterate: we understand that a lot of people legitimately and fairly use these instances, and this is going to be painful while it’s in effect. but we hope you can understand why we’re doing this. our words, when we talk about building something better here, are not idle platitudes, and we are not out to build a space that grows at any cost. we want a better space, and we think this is necessary to do that right now. if you disagree we understand that, but we hope you can if nothing else come away with the understanding it was an informed decision.

this is also not a permanent judgement (or a moral one on the part of either community’s owner, i should add–we just have differing interests here and that’s fine). in the future as tools develop, cultures settle, attitudes and interest change, and the wave of newcomers settles down, we’ll reassess whether we feel capable of refederating with these communities.

thanks for using our site folks.

      • 667@kbin.social
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        2 years ago

        kbin.social is just fine, too. At the time of my reply, I thought this was a kbin thread and so advocated for one of the other kbin-based instances, but it’s actually a Beehaw thread. Just one of the learning pains!

        • Deebster@beehaw.org
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          2 years ago

          I was thinking it just shows how well this whole fediverse idea works that you could even be confused in the first place 🤓

        • 667@kbin.social
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          2 years ago

          Go to kbin.social, click Login, then click create account.

          If you’re trying to wrap your head around Federation, consider each “Instance” akin to an email provider like Gmail, Yahoo, Bing. It doesn’t matter who you sign up with, each provides email that can be sent and received with other email providers.

          Federation is similar in that each Instance (a particular site like Fedia.io, kbin.social, lemmy, etc) are now the providers. So long as each Instance is participating in Federation, then you’ll see content from everywhere.

          This reply is a perfect example. I’m on kbin, you’re on lemmy.ml, and this thread is on Beehaw!

            • 667@kbin.social
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              2 years ago

              kbin is Federated with Mastodon (to my understanding) as “Microblogs”. Lemmy federates with kbin as magazines:communities and posts/articles/etc:[the lemmy equivalent].

              I don’t mind you asking at all–this is a wonderful little time. We’re witnessing and participating in the potential birth of a new kind of social networking.

              • thgs@beehaw.org
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                2 years ago

                So as I understand from your post here, every piece of software is responsible to define its relationship with a different kind of software while all use ActivityPub underneath?

                I have been reading on the ActivityPub protocol and trying to understand these days.

                • 667@kbin.social
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                  2 years ago

                  Yes, this is as I understand it as well. Eventually everything will fall under a set of open standards, very much like email.

            • ConstableJelly@beehaw.org
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              2 years ago

              To add on to what 667 said (because I had the same questions myself the past week, and am still learning), kbin is not just another Lemmy instance. Unlike Beehaw, lemmy.ml, etc. (which are all built on the same code template), Kbin has its own codebase. I think of it as a separate “application” within the Fediverse, one that was built with both reddit-style link aggregation (a la Lemmy) and Twitter-style microblogs (a la mastodon) in mind.

              This is how I think of it, hopefully of I’m mistaken someone will correct me 😄.

      • __ANGUS__POUNDER__@kbin.social
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        2 years ago

        Kbin.social direct is nice but uhh, quick question.

        Hey Kbin!?!?! Uhh, Kbin??? *taps mic

        Uhh, hey hi. Quick question.

        Does anyone here want to pound my sweet tight twink fart hole??? Hmm? Any takers??