• blazera@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    The big thing is the Hamas attack wasnt the start of all this. It wasnt Israel minding their own business and Hamas invading for the glory of Islam. The warning cries of a humanitarian crisis were going off long before this recent war, from international humanitarian agencies like Unicef. Gaza was being militarily oppressed by Israel, blocking humanitarian aid, international trade, even denying access to their own waters for fishing.

    Civilians were dying off already as a result of Israel, and Israel ignored the warnings, the international community ignored the warnings, and then its shocked pikachus all around as a dying people fight back for survival.

    • TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id
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      1 year ago

      They did a little more than simply “fight back.” They also engaged in widespread and utterly gratuitous acts of violence and torture in ways that can only have been calculated to trigger an overreaction on the part of Israel. They knew exactly what they were doing and what would happen. They obviously don’t give a fuck about their own people.

    • Akasazh@feddit.nl
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      1 year ago

      I do agree the Hamas attack wasn’t the start of this. However tactically it was incredibly silly, honestly what did they think would happen?

      They gave Netanyahu, who was finally fumbling at the reigns after almost thirty years aan excuse to execute his wet dreams and all of Israel uniting behind him.

      I see no way how they could have thought the attack would benefit their cause.

      • blazera@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        I dont think people are appreciating the context of Gazans dying off. It wasnt a stable situation that was fine to continue as it was going, imagine youre locked in a room with a lunatic with a knife trying to kill you. Youre not likely to beat the lunatic, but youre gonna try, you dont have any other options.

        Waiting didnt work, protests didnt work, pleading with the international community didnt work, they cant leave. Everyone keeps saying they shouldnt have fought back, but what should they have done? Nothing is not available as an option.

        • Akasazh@feddit.nl
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          1 year ago

          I appreciate that and I have equated the current war to the Warsaw ghetto uprising. I’m not an apologist.

          However, as Sun Zu said, you must not interrupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake. Netanyahu’s might was failing. Israeli youth was rising up against him.

          It’s not like they absolutely needed to do this right now, and they could’ve quite easily understood what the response would be (maybe not the entire extent).

          Tactically it was stupid.

          • blazera@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            What authority was netanyahu losing? Or are you just referring to there being some chance of him losing an election? Because Gaza did wait and see for several elections. He was just reelected in 2022. So apparently he’s not being voted out.

              • t3rmit3@beehaw.org
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                1 year ago

                Sure, but it wasn’t saving any Palestinians lives in the process OR the goal. Most Israelis weren’t opposing Netanyahu because they were against the Israeli genocide of Palestinians, they just didn’t like what he was doing to prevent punishment for his corruption. They wanted to replace him, but it would just be with another genocidal guy.

                • Akasazh@feddit.nl
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                  1 year ago

                  I don’t know. I remember both Rabin and Sharon, who briefly gave some hope in the nineties. It never materialized but it’s hope I must cling to. Just like the Irish managed to put their para military ways aside.

                  The sad part of this attack is that that hoe is pushed back even further.

                  So call me naive or a fool, but I keep hoping for a new generation that distances itself from the spiral of violence. It’s a feint hope, that got even more so due to this new horrible episode.

          • t3rmit3@beehaw.org
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            1 year ago

            Israeli youth was rising up against him.

            “Rising up” insomuch as they were protesting his proposed changes, not in that they were contemplating actually removing him from power, or even trying to oust/disband/etc Likud.

            • Akasazh@feddit.nl
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              1 year ago

              Don’t you think that, however small, some action must take form?

              When I was small there were two conflicts that dividend public opinion and were sure to last centuries, those bring the Israel-Palestine conflict and the Irish one.

              I think that disengaging the murder spiral makes things better. Both the resentment of the Israeli youth against their more and more fascist government was an incredibly worthwhile step.

              Hamas and Likud alle don’t like any two state proposals, that’s why this is happening.

              • t3rmit3@beehaw.org
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                1 year ago

                If I came into your house and drove you by force into the garage, I don’t think you’d want a “2-house solution” that allows you to live there, either.

                And no, I don’t think that essentially saying, “why don’t the Palestinians wait around being killed quietly, to see if the youths protesting today will massively change Israel’s trajectory when they get into politics in 20 years?” is a reasonable, measured, or humane stance.

      • t3rmit3@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        Because Israel will never let them back in if they leave. That is not hypothetical; it happened to thousands of Palestinians during the 6-day war, and their families are still stuck in Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon today.

        • TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id
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          1 year ago

          It’s also because Hamas has its origins in the Muslim Brotherhood which for obvious reasons means that Egypt is very leery of accepting Palestinians from Gaza.

          I’m not defending their position, just explaining it; Egypt is basically a military dictatorship at this point and the Muslim Brotherhood is enemy number one for them.

      • Blackmist@feddit.uk
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        1 year ago

        They don’t want them either.

        All the Arab world may be united in it’s hatred of Israel, but that doesn’t mean they like each other…

        • livus@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          @Blackmist it’s not about “like” it’s about realpolitik.

          2 million refugees into Egypt would be like suddenly allowing 6 million refugees into the US. Political suicide for anyone that did it.

          Especially if it meant you were likely going to get a border war with a notoriously land-stealing nation as well.

    • Jamil@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      It all started when Israel showed up on the block and forcibly removed 700000 Palestinians from their homes. There’s no history before that worth discussing as it is archeological records, not history.

      Areas that were once 90% Palestinian, suddenly became 90% Jewish. Those people are still fighting to get their homes back, and Israel is continuing to evict Palestinians daily.

      The first step to a solution is to recognize that Israel’s goals are to ethnically cleanse the area and then work from there.