What’s also frustrating is the fact that MacBook could be the ideal options for me but they’re not repairable easily, they are also super pricy if you want the bare minimum in 2023 (16go of RAM and a decent sized SSD)…
There’s everything, customisation with Yabai, FL Studio + VST support, Logic Pro X, fast compile time for when I program, linux convenience, nerd fonts, dark theme, etc…
And don’t get me started on the battery and the screen quality.
yeah, the 8GB RAM is laughable. like … why is Apple pretending 8GB is … ok? Here is this great laptop, but you just f’d yourself with the minimal specs AND YOU CANT UPGRADe.
The latest MacBook is great but the hw lock on ram + storage sucks.
Go easy on Apple, they can’t afford the extra TWO BUCKS of the cheapest most commodity silicon on Earth.
Everyone always raves about how affordable the Mac mini is whenever someone complains.
The base model is quite affordable, yes. But you only get 8GB of memory. Which needs to be shared between cpu and gpu, too.
Like, come on
I feel the same way about Live - I’ll probably always dual boot windows for this reason.
I can’t justify paying Apple for their hardware, it’s pretty laughable in my opinion compared to other options.
What? In the laptop space? The ARM chip is legit and so is the battery life w/uber high core counts; the bus speed is smokin’ quick compared to just about every other laptop on the market. GPU is really good too, between better but not the best.
You get a lot of book with that mac. The avg wintel doesn’t come close, spec wise.
BUT
no way to upgrade storage, for DAWs…oof.
Right, I completely forgot about the M chips.
Think I’d rather save like 3-4 thousand dollars on a high end machine and go for an i7 or ryzen7 however
100%. A realistic entry level MacBook is ~ $1.2k USD +/-
MacOS is complete with … apps , coding (playground is nuts), ecosystem integration (including phone, tv, sharing, audio, midi, etc)!
100% agree with saving a few bucks esp with sales on Wintel laptops < $1k: the ability to add RAM and SSD over time is really nice. Starting with 8GB RAM, recovering from the purchase and then upping to 64GB (or max size) is nicely feasible in the Wintel world.
But should $WinTel price creep north, MacOS is worth a peek imo.
I don’t know about VST specifically, but you should look into Bitwig, if you’re looking for professional audio programs like FL Studio
Thanks! I understand they’re alternative but FL Studio is incredibly, outstandingly simple and fast for its giant capabilities…. and it’s been updated, improved for longer than I live know!
(I’m 16yo)
And FL Studio 20 works fine… some freezes. But my toolkit of instruments, of plugins to mix, put effects, etc… it’s so niche to use Linux for music that they either crash FL, and corrupt my work… but yeah…
the VST part is no kidding for real. bitwig and REAPER aren’t FL studio but yeah linux is just too niche for the avg VST developer already stretched thin by MacOS + Windows…
Just do a dual boot. There are a couple of programs I still use on Windows also.
i wanted to print in duplex mode: the printer linux driver didnt support it (i thought it was a pdf reader thing, apparently its a driver thing). also wanted to have a logical partition as expansion, ended up corrupting the boot file. using linux is backbreaking, but kinda useful to run in a machine on the side. linux really have some cool apps, but proprietery software doen’t seem to get along with it well. best way to approach this is to run both OS’s, according to ur needs.
also wanted to have a logical partition as expansion, ended up corrupting the boot file
I’ve been using Linux for decades and my response to that is ‘wut?’
using linux is backbreaking
It really isn’t. What do you struggle with? I might be able to point you in the right direction.
best way to approach this is to run both OS’s, according to ur needs.
Disagree, Linux in 2023 is perfectly usable outside of DRM for games and proprietary crapware (e.g. Adobe, certain CAD software)
Disagree
tbh i wish it weren’t my opinion too. but since the occasion presented itself, op is struggling with setting up a software for his needs on linux: i wish there were viable options for his case.
It really isn’t.
maybe i am simple minded, but why do i have to install gparted just so i could partition my disk (in windows disk partition is a given), or have to install fuse so i could run .appimage files; why don’t these functions come preinstalled ? maybe i am now starting to understand why is linux invunerable to viruses: u kinda have to sudo ur way through everything so u could u achieve ur need. maybe i am venting, but as a newcomer from windows, its kinda overwhelming haha: wanna copy to a readonly directroy: sudo cp; edit a readonly file: sudo gedit…even the terminal isnt in favourites, i have to ctrl alt T so i could find it 😭😭 again, i am no dev, and i kinda have a day to spend and work to get to xd
why do i have to
install gparted just so i could partition my disk
You don’t. The tools to do this without the gui are likely included in your distribution as a base. Try
gdiskorfdiskorparted.install fuse so i could run .appimage files
Fuse (Filesystem in Userspace) is a dependency of appimage. https://github.com/AppImage/AppImageKit/wiki/FUSE
why don’t these functions come preinstalled
That’s up to your distribution, but typically the answer is ‘users can install it through the package manager if and when they need it’.
Ask them - raise a bug (after checking that there’s no others that exist) and see if there’s a good reason for it!
maybe i am now starting to understand why is linux invunerable to viruses: u kinda have to sudo ur way through everything so u could u achieve ur need
Yes, strict separation of user privileges has historically been a reason why Unix-like OSes are harder to compromise, but it’s not a silver bullet.
Windows, for example, still had everyone using an Administrator account for day-to-day stuff until Vista / 7.
maybe i am venting, but as a newcomer from windows, its kinda overwhelming
I’d suggest changing your approach; expecting things to adhere to patterns that you’re familiar with from Windows is not likely to make your life easier.
If you’re comfortable with the terminal, get used to basic commands like
cat,grep,find, etc - the command line tools are often more available (and more powerful) than their hypothetical GUI counterpart!You don’t. The tools to do this without the gui are likely included in your distribution as a base
i could barely do it in gui, let alone in cui. i need colors to know what i am doing (consider me ur average joe!, and i kinda am)
That’s up to your distribution, but typically the answer is ‘users can install it through the package manager if and when they need it’.
please do, i really like to be recommended a distro which comes with many common tools installed. package manager (if u mean by that snap and the like ?) is buggy as hell, i would rather use terminal than deal with that
Windows, for example, still had everyone using an Administrator account for day-to-day stuff until Vista / 7.
i miss those days, now can’t do nothing with my win 7 :(
If you’re comfortable with the terminal, get used to basic commands like cat, grep, find, etc - the command line tools are often more available (and more powerful) than their hypothetical GUI counterpart!
yea i guess i ll have to: already bookmarked a common sysadmin commands guide, and probably would have to learn more in the process. again as u mentionned, as much as it is tiresome, i start to think the reason why things are the way they are in linux. also i like the harmony between my android and linux apps when syncing: it feels like being in a macos/ios environement on a budget, but with also the advantage of being able to upgrade hardware, and very wide array of apps to choose from, and the open source community willing to offer help.complaining apart, i will dedicate time and effort to learn linux and make the best of it.
also, seeing that ur an admin of an instance, i really wanted to self host…myself too, since i was on linux, but i am kinda following docker guides blindly and didnt get much far with my endeavour so i had to bail for now
if u mean by that snap and the like ?
I mean tools like
apt,yum,dnf,emerge, andpacman, the things you use to install additional software packages onto your system.It sounds like you’re on the right track. There are differences in how you need to think about Linux administration, but once you get your head around that and some shell familiarity you should be set.
I can offer some assistance on the docker part; look me up on IRC if interested - irc.libera.chat #gentoo-chat (Aussie time though)
i didnt use irc before but i hav a matrix account. nonetheless i ll look up how to reach u through this. and thank you for being easy on me for my linux takes: if linux is to be mass adopted, new comers need to be handled this way, and not to be shamed for their lack of knowledge.
Well… 1. FL Studio is proprietary but they’re super respectful of the community.
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They have been improving FL for longer than I lived know. (I’m 16yo)
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But! It still doesn’t work on linux lol — it’s cool with Wine, some freeze here and there, but when you use VSTs which are kinda essential to make music, it just sometimes crashes.
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It had the good aspect of pushing me to sample more, so I discovered a new way to make music ;) !
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Linux is perfectly usable for going on Internet, browsing shit, incredible for programming, and very good for playing games. Okay… but, I need to create, not just consume!
I’m on Arch Linux, I got no problems, it’s very fun since I switched two years ago when I got my laptop but for something, Linux is so bad. I wish I could fix that? But I can’t do it alone :)
Linux is … incredible for programming … but, I need to create, not just consume!
You think that programming isn’t creative? :P
Linux is so bad
How? Serious question, what are your pain points?
FL Studio is proprietary
Stop using proprietary software that you can’t fix (or get someone to fix). :P
Try using a virtual machine if you really need to run windows, but…
The ideal solution would be to work out how to replace it in your workflow, even if that means you need to learn to code and build your own tool.
I wish I could fix that? But I can’t do it alone :)
If there’s a community that’s already out there working on similar open source software I’m sure that they would welcome new contributors with open arms; they can’t do it alone either.
Maybe you don’t know the language or can’t code, but you can still help out with documentation, triaging bugs, etc. Learning to submit useful bug reports and reproduce bugs from other users can help developers spend their time fixing bugs not working out what’s going on.
bruh - it’s better to admit Linux Open Source is janky for audio production and that its commercial offerings (bitwig, reaper, renoize et al), while awesome, are incomplete because the plugin world isn’t there.
There are some things where a Mac or Windows is just a better choice, and 100% a DAW is that place.
PLEASE NOTE: Linux is 100% the right OS for homebrew devices c/o RasberryPi. There are audio focused distros that do have some nice features but they are a different kind of journey.
Telling someone “go code” is totally unrealistic. The OP’s goal is to make music.
Telling someone “go code” is totally unrealistic.
I’m not suggesting that someone switch over to them immediately, but accepting the status quo is a great way to ensure that it will never change. There’s no inherent reason that this software can’t run on Linux; as you’ve pointed out it’s that nobody has cared enough to do the porting.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
If you want better audio production on Linux put in some work. I provided a ton of non-coding ways that someone can contribute to those products.
I’m pragmatic enough that I suggested the use of a Windows VM.
I do think programming is creative, I just didn’t talk precisely about it because it wasn’t the focus of the conversation :).
Linux is very bad for music creation, the ecosystem is lacking the incredible tools like Ableton or FL studio, and the VSTs. You can’t shit done on Linux in this area right now, well I’ve made some music but what a pain it was.
I won’t stop using proprietary software just for the sake of using Linux. I need and I like FL Studio, it’s a very good DAW. Stop trying to convert everyone to your open-source utopia, it can’t exist! I love open-source, I’m an open-source contributor on a few projects and most of my projects (the good ones) are open-source too! But, try to make music with open-source tools and we can talk about it.
Some of them are good but not as good as an Omnisphere, a Serum, or a Purity, or a Ozone RX 9 for mixing.
And no, I won’t involve myself into an open-source DAW because I’ve literally got other shit to do right now than filling issues or PRs that no one will read on GitHub.
The way you talk about things is not helpful, it is just the same copy-pasted shit every time. Open-source… bugs… developers… community… proprietary software bad…
Stop acting like a malfunctioning cyborg.
so on the real
There should be an a audio focused distro. I think one way to solve this problem - it’s been am minute - is to host VSTs on a network node and access them over the network.
This takes a bit of doing and dedication but that is one approach.
It’s pretty exotic and not your use case…but for some it works well.
That’s a great interim workaround. Do you know if it’s been documented anywhere?
Check out VST virtual racks – audiogridder is one, there are others. I would assume any low-latency audio distr worth it’s salt would have it prewired…no idea what actual latency would be like, and how well it works.
Muse receptor was a linux based “VST in a hw rack” soln for a hot minute … it was linux (maybe suse???) + wine + tweaks. the idea there was why run vsts on your computer, run them in a receptor and process the audio like hw synth…controlling the receptor via midi??? They can be found for cheap as chips today.
This was a bigger thing back when 8 cores came from dual quad cores…not as big a deal today, when 8 core / 16 thread CPU laptops are consumer level devices.
All of this is probably not very great workflow for someone looking for an integrated solution. Some people are into the journey, and that’s cool. Others just want to make music, and that’s cool too.
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Linux is very bad for music creation, the ecosystem is lacking the incredible tools like Ableton or FL studio, and the VSTs. You can’t shit done on Linux in this area right now, well I’ve made some music but what a pain it was.
So what you’re saying is that it’s possible but that the tools aren’t great right now?
I love open-source, I’m an open-source contributor on a few projects and most of my projects (the good ones) are open-source too!
It sounds like you’re in a position to make some headway on that.
try to make music with open-source tools and we can talk about it.
Some of them are good
So they’re not all ‘very bad’ then?
I won’t involve myself into an open-source DAW because I’ve literally got other shit to do right now than filling issues or PRs that no one will read on GitHub.
Why do you assume that issues or PRs won’t be read and actioned? That’s not my experience working with open source?
Stop trying to convert everyone to your open-source utopia, it can’t exist
Bullshit (and beside the point).
The way you talk about things is not helpful, it is just the same copy-pasted shit every time. Open-source… bugs… developers… community… proprietary software bad…
Stop acting like a malfunctioning cyborg.
Make me.
Edit: I did ask for actual pain points and you didn’t respond to that.
Edit2: a quick update from IRC
neutroniak: lmms supports VSTs
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Printers. Always a problem. I wanted to use my HP PSC1315 under Windows, but apparently the driver used Flash Player…? so it doesn’t work anymore. On Linux HP has pretty good support with HPLIP, so for normal printing it works (this printer has “partial support”). Unfortunately for high DPI I have to use Windows 7 virtual machine.
Oh, yeah. You can just use Windows as printer driver with VirtualBox.
I haven’t tried for years but vst’s are pure pain on Linux.
Have you tried bitwig studio? It has a native Linux version and is incredible. Vst will still be shit (if they are even supported) but if you master bitwig you probably won’t even need them.
FL Studio is kinda fine, it’s really some very important VST that crash. Event the stock plugins…
I use FL Studio on Arch with mostly VST2 plugins and it runs pretty well. Only thing that is a little gripe is VST3 plugins (the GUI doesn’t update when you’re tweaking parameters). Generally VST plugins in FL Studio work pretty well for me.
I use free plugins which either come in a zip file or an .msi installer. There were some plugins which required a “Software Center” program to install, and yes, those are very tedious (I’d say even on windows). Truly hate those things.
I’ve had a couple plugins which have had certain GUI elements missing, but that’s the only extent. (one example is a spring reverb plugin which doesn’t render the knobs, but thankfully they have a shadow so i can still figure out where they are).
What sort of plugins are you using? Certain copy protection might be a bit harder to run on WINE than others. (Especially iLok, that thing seems like a pain).
I recently tried to sidechain my kick to my 808 while mixing. And when I opened fruity limiter, most of the UI didn’t render.
There are a lot of freeze when you drag and drop things. Serum doesn’t work when I load it, Pigments & Arturia Lab V blink without stopping when I use them. Purity crashes FL Studio 20.
FL Studio 21 crashes when I use dropdown menus, and when it doesn’t crash, I can’t load any sample because it’s impossible to drag and drop without crashing the thing.
The experience is not so bad on FL20 but gosh, how frustrating it is to be so limited in the plugins you can use…
I had no problem installing them tho.
Wow, those are some pretty glaring issues. Have you checked your winecfg? I have mine on Windows 10 (and probably make sure yours is too. If it’s on XP, change it to 10). What WINE version are you running? (i’m on 8.13)
If that doesn’t fix it then i’m kinda stumped.
Heard certain Nvidia cards can cause issues (i’m on an AMD rx570). Don’t know if it could be related but ye those are quite the rendering issues.
I’ll check after but if it works you’re a lifesaver!
Edit: Well. After checking I have the same settings as you, and they look appropriate
ye this is weird. do you have any other wine packages installed (like mono, gecko, and corefonts?) i remember installing them (and i think .net framework and visual c++ as well) before installing FL Studio.
if all that fails then idk, i’m just as stumped as you. wine can be a bit hit or miss, especially on certain setups.
I checked and everything looks good! I don’t know man… I just made two tracks with this setup but it’s not so bad
There is an installer in Bottles(for Ableton too)
I know how to use Wine, I wouldn’t be here talking if it was a perfect experience!
I didn’t know about the bottles install scripts for quite a time. I personally don’t use FL Studio, but Abletons built in plugins, which are quite many with SUIT, work fine.
FL studio runs alright for me in Bottles, though it crashes every now and again
