Facts! They buy simply to show off the logo and demonstrate they can afford to hang in a walled garden.
Edit: iPhones are more “private and secure” out of the box, but it literally takes half a brain with 5 minutes in Android settings to surpass this LOW bar.
Pruvate if you don’t count Apples own trackers, they don’t want to protect users fron Fuckbook but rather monopolize data collection and with it properly targeted ads on their devices, one of the only times I ever found myself agreeing with the Zuck!
It’s not an A or B choice in any sense, framing anything in the tech space along these lines is equal to Dems vs Reps…There’s vivid documented work arounds for both, both Apple and Zuck deserve to get lost base on what they’ve turned into.
That’s not at all what I wrote, the Zuck was just one of the few to actually point out the monopolistic bs behind it all while the world seemed to party because Apple protects peoples privacy now…
My fault, I mistook your statement.
I hate the tribalism regarding Apple products. There are loyal fanboys who won’t hear a bad word about Apple, and then there are Apple haters who criticise everything about them.
I wish we had some more nuance in this debate. The reality is that there are advantages and disadvantages to Apple products. I’ll outline a few:
Advantages
- Long iOS support. Typically you can expect an iPhone to be supported for 5-7 years, which is well above the average in the industry.
- No bloatware or adverts on the iPhone
- Better privacy than Google Android/Microsoft Windows
- High-end hardware, e.g. M1 chip in MacBooks.
- User friendly design. Nice user experience.
Disadvantages
- Overpriced. Seriously all Apple products are more expensive than the competition.
- Anti-consumer business practices that influence the industry. They normalised removing the headphone jack and using non-removable batteries, which other manufacturers followed. Another anti-consumer practice is using their proprietary Lighting port, rather than USB (luckily the EU should be forcing them to adopt USB-C and removable batteries soon). Also, no SD card slot because they want you to use iCloud
- Walled garden. No support for side-loading apps
- Required to use iTunes to add/remove music to the iPhone, which is a problem if you use Linux (you’d have to use Wine to install the Windows version as a workaround)
iPhones are easy to use, if you do EVERYTHING their way.
I like to say that there are two Apples, Apple the designer and Apple the business.
Apple the designer is one of the best in the world. Yes they have blunders but they consistently put out some of the highest quality hardware and software. The current design language of the iPhone is beautiful, MacOS has its issues but it’s a good OS, the seamlesness with which Apple devices work together is nothing short of incredible. They have some of the best engineers and designers in the world and it shows. (I’ll never forgive them for the mouse though, that thing is a travesty)
Apple the business is a ghoul who hates its users and competition, would rather you buy a new phone than repair your broken one and, if they could, would make your device implode if you do anything they don’t approve of. I’m still waiting for them to be benevolent enough to allow me to code on an M1 iPad, a device that has all the power of a mac but is completely knee capped by its OS.
I love Apple the designer, but unfortunately Apple the business makes it impossible for me to support them.
No bloatware or adverts on the iPhone
Cherry-picked. There are phones without ads or bloat. And, given the incompatibility between facetime/iMessage and apps standardized across all other platforms, I consider these to be bloat.
User friendly design. Nice user experience.
Subjective. I support a number of family members whose grandkids suggested iPhones. Whether it’s swooshing, skootching, swiping, tapping or banging it against a guardrail, I haven’t learned and they can’t remember how to bring up the main app screen now that the functional button was removed – like, none of them. I’m just here to fix their email passwords, and I leave the UX issues to said grandkids.
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I use Iphone and Ipad just for the banking. I distrust Android. It is an open system, and used a lot more for data collection than Apple’s ecosystem is. The return you get from a data request between apple and an Android system is vast. I refuse to use Facebook and the likes.
I never buy the latest edition of Iphone anymore. I have done in the past, but the idea of spending £1200 on a phone seems stupid to me. I have very few apps on both the Iphone and Ipad. I use a PC for other stuff. Iphone hardware is good with the CPU side of things, but the cameras are very inferior compared to some android phones.
I use a windows PC to move my own music to my iphone, but it is a hampered system. I really do not understand why they have not been brought to the spotlight of the monopolies commission because of how bad they hinder transfers. I have a process I have to follow to get new music on my iphone. Anyone who wants movies on their apple products should look at VLC. It is the easiest method. I should add I haven’t added new music for a long time. This could have changed, but I would be sceptical until I saw it for myself.
I look down on anyone buying a Macbook. They are total dogcrap, and massively overpriced. They are designed to fail in many areas, the latest being the SSDs that are causing surges in the motherboard, which destroys it. Apple constructively inhibits any repairs behind software encoding and pressure it puts on 3rd party suppliers. They lobby US government to restrict self repairs. You are literally throwing money into Apple’s bank account for very little return.
Intel macbooks deserve the hate, but the apple silicon ones are genuinely impressive to the point of being worth it until the competition catches up in terms of ARM performance, especially in terms of battery life.
I don’t know, I have an M1 Mac Mini and it is awful, I’ll never buy another M chip. It’s fast when you’re just using a single program, but having more things open and it slows right to a crawl. Plus it’s inability to do actual virtualisation is a real pain.
Very odd… i multitask and run both paravirtualized (arm) and virtualized (x86) linux and windows without issues. You are more likely on the base model and out of RAM.
It is the base model, I have about 2gb of ram free but it does run out quickly and due to apple bullshit there’s no way to just open it and upgrade the ram (also, how the hell do they think 8gb is acceptable?). And they’re capable of emulation, but not true virtualisation and things like VirtualBox don’t run at all, unless that’s changed recently because I admit I haven’t looked into it since I found it was impossible after I got the machine.
Also once I have a single docker container running, it causes things like chrome to crash all the time, and I can’t even run chrome, vscode, insomnia and a docker container together. Absolutely trash machine, doesn’t compare even slightly to my 6 year old i7-8700k machine that’s fully customisable. I don’t see any reason to ever get another arm machine, and definitely not another Mac.
8GB is more than enough for someone who only does a little light web browsing and sending the occasional e-mail. Anyone who needs more from their computer is expected to know better and not order the base model. 32GB is workable, 64GB is better.
I have a MB pro with M1 Max and 64GB RAM and it’s an absolute beast. I can throw everything at it and it doesn’t break a sweat, and I’m a demanding user. I’m a developer and have a lot of software running all the time, 400+ tabs open in Safari, lots of PDF files and other documents open. I’m also running it with 2 high-res monitors (5k2k ultrawide and a 4k). Lots of work related apps (e.g. Teams, Outlook, and bullshit like that). The fan doesn’t even come on. Not even when I compile a large codebase using all 10 cores. It’s an absolute monster. And all that in a 14” laptop. Easily the best computer I ever used.
When was the last time Apple used an Arm chips over intel ? According to the Wiki, this was 2005. X86 software and GPUs were behind apple by quite a way back then. Did they still add Arm to later versions?
Originally X86 was not built with graphics processing in mind. It did not really show anything worth while until the Nvidia viper GPUs in the mid 90s. Prior to that Amiga had the best for graphics processing. I seem to remember Lightshow being the software for Amiga (don’t quote me on that, it is from memory). PC became the best for gaming when Voodoo release their first card (possibly 97/98), but they still could not compete with an Apple in graphic processing. Amiga had fell away by this time.
When was the last time Apple used an Arm chips over intel ?
Today.
All their computers are Arm now.
Sorry, but Techreader agrees with me on this one. Apple Macbooks are simply not worth the money spent on them. Techreader does not mention the way Apple inhibits servicing or upgrades. A problem that does not exist at that level on the PC platform. Even with a laptop the CPU, memory and HDD are interchangeable. Apple does not want you to upgrade; they want you to spend 10X the cost by buying a whole new product.
@Syldon @1993_toyota_camry I bought a Macbook Pro in 2008 and used it happily (with little performance degradation) until 2018 when the displays logic board died and that vintage wasn’t being supplied any longer.
I’ve honestly never heard of a PC laptop lasting 10 years like that, except maybe by grannies who put it in a cozy every night, just play solitaire on the thing and never heard of a Windows update.
Lol, seriously my friend do not repeat that argument. OFC people use very old PCs. If you had a mac running for 10 years, this is not a regular event. The guy mentioned in this post, Louis Rossman, has made a lot of cash from pointing out the flaws behind the Macbook design. He makes a good living repairing them.
The company I worked for had 286 PCs running the stock system all the way up till 2013. This is a PC that was running for 24 years before they considered replacing it. The company was not some back street mickey mouse set up who didn’t want to spend cash. This was one of the major car companies. Large companies do not change things that are critical to the operation without a lot of effort to makes sure it goes right. They rely heavily on old systems because they know they work. This is very much the case across a lot of large companies.
I agree with everything you said except the lightning port. The lightning port came out 4 years before USB C did and it did a much better job than any other port on the market at the time. Apple wasn’t going to make that investment if they weren’t going to stick with it for a while, for one every iPhone user would hate having to switch cables again that quickly, but also there was no guarantee USB C was going to succeed. Apple even participated in creating the USB C spec, as I detailed in another comment. Honestly I think the lightning port is actually better than USB C for what it does: incredibly thin, non clogging, waterproof phone port.
They should not have used it for other junk like the fucking Magic Mouse or whatever other mice or keyboard peripherals there were used for.
The issue isn’t that Apple made the lightning port. The issue is that USB C has been standard on THEIR OWN DEVICES since 2012. I understand not wanting to switch immediately after introducing a new port, but I would argue that USB has been the clear winner ever since the Switch came out in 2017, which was still 6 YEARS ago.
Apple would not have changed to an objectively better port if it weren’t for the EU regulations.
Also, lightning better than USB-C? A USB 2.0 port that transfers at 1/100th the speed? You’re insane.
It’s literally impossible for USB C to have been
standard on THEIR OWN DEVICES since 2012.
It wasn’t even announced until 2012, much less have any sort of spec. The spec wasn’t even finalized by the USB Implementers Forum until 2014 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C
Apple would not have changed to an objectively better port if it weren’t for the EU regulations.
… they already switched on all their other devices. Why would they have not switched eventually?
Also, lightning better than USB-C? A USB 2.0 port that transfers at 1/100th the speed? You’re insane.
Yes. I don’t give one shit about transfer speed, just like the majority of phone users (not just iPhone users - all phone users). You sync using the cloud. If you’re using a cable to sync you are in the minority
My apple products (MBP) come from my employer
A 14 year old girl once tried to berate me for having an android versus her iPhone. I asked her why her iPhone was so much better thsn my android? She didn’t have a response. I told her that I had an iPhone, and found it inflexible and frustrating to use. It’s overpriced and boring…
She didn’t really understand what I was getting at, and why ear buds or blue text bubbles weren’t important to me.
Bought Asus laptop, just 1.5 year later the product is discontinued and no support page can be found. They also stopped selling the charging brick for it.
Bought Sony headphones, a year later wanted to replace the foam. No customer support, no repair, just nada.
Bought Samsung phone. Filled to brim with bloat. Shows me ads on lockscreen. Crawling speed in 2 years. No updates.
Bought an iPhone for mom. Still getting updates after 4 years. Got battery replaced with no hassle.
Don’t knock it till you try it.
Bought Samsung phone. Filled to brim with bloat. Shows me ads on lockscreen. Crawling speed in 2 years. No updates.
Which one did you get? Mine’s 4 years old, still gets updates, no ads, zippy enough that I can dictate messages.
Okay, this one’s not 4 years old, because I cracked the face on mine and ordered a refurb so really it’s a year old copy of a 4±year old phone.
These seem like cherry picked examples to an extent.
Most Asus laptops charge with basic USB C which can easily be purchased anywhere. They also use M.2 SSD’s instead of soldered one’s and standard screws vs Apple’s special shaped ones.
Apple’s only headphones + replacement pads are going to over 2x the price of even high-end Sony headphones. Plus Apple exclusively puts the Lightning jack on them instead of USB C or a 3.5mm jack
None of the Samsung phones I’ve ever used have had ads on the Lock Screen or any bloat that wasn’t easy to completely ignore. The ones that do are typically cheaper than the cheapest iPhone and an unfair comparison
Honestly I gave up on Samsung a while ago. Not generally a fan of Google’s business practices but I switched to a Pixel a year ago and it’s already leagues better than any of the Samsung phones I used.
Samsung has been becoming increasingly like Apple.
The S23 Ultra (their top of the line phone) has an excellent camera and image stabilization and a stylus. It doesn’t, however have expandable storage, an IR blaster, headphone jack. or a removable battery.
I have a Galaxy Tab A7 Lite (rooted and debloated)
I don’t like that I don’t get updates after I rooted it. Also screw Google safetynet (although this is not just limited to Samsung devices)
Also FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, Samsung, please use a standard fastboot implementation instead of Download mode/odin bs
It is a decent tablet though in terms of hardware
Framework laptop is your answer. https://frame.work/
Framework laptop is too expensive for me at the moment
I just use a Dell laptop upgraded with an SSD with Xubuntu on it
I ended up buying a Pixel 7 and slapping EndeavourOS Linux on all of my laptops and PC’s in the spur of the moment because I was sick of Windows and was not a fan of Apple. I dont regret it at all. I also grabbed a steam deck recently and I love it. Its so nice to not have to deal with the absolute bullshit that both microsoft and apple force you to go through. I have full control over my device and what goes in it. It’s quite nice.
I’m convinced people who post these haven’t actually used apple devices seriously without going into it with their superiority complex. the fluidity and peace of mind not having to find fucking drivers for some shit from 2004 that have long been consumed by time it just plugs in and works. Or the fact that for instance a MacBook comes with everything you need to say decompress a file without downloading winrar or 7zip it’s built in. The apple version of ms office comes with the device. Not to mention the software being specifically written for the hardware means i haven’t had a day ruining crash in so long i can’t remember. Not having God damn ads on my desktop you gotta be kidding me. Text messages on all my devices. My mouse and keyboard on my mac can automatically control my iPad. Sure you can kinda do these things on the bootleg os’s kinda sorta but when it comes out of the box like that and i don’t have to fuck with 20 3rd party apps and ads on everything is 10000% worth it to me.
Your point is solid, but that level of polish on Apple products is only skin deep. For example, there are several missing features and issues with MacOS that have gone unaddressed for years.
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Window edge snapping is incredibly frustrating. Linux desktops and Microsoft Windows have had proper window snapping support for decades.
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The app uninstall process is inconsistent, with some apps remaining contained in the .app folder while others spill out all over the system.
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The recovery mode process for resetting an Intel-based Mac is incredibly tedious and time consuming.
However, MacOS isn’t the only Apple product with issues.
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WatchOS has an inconsistent and difficult to navigate UI. The bubble menu is inconsistent and difficult to navigate, and the list view requires that you sort by alphabetical when a “recently used” sort would be significantly more efficient.
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IOS doesn’t allow sideloading apps.
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TVOS is filled with ads for Apple’s premium services like AppleTV+
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IOS home screen icons cannot have blank space and must instead tile to the top of the screen.
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Methods for going back to what was previously onscreen are inconsistent in IOS.
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IOS browsers are required to use mobile Safari’s web engine.
However, this isn’t to say that Apple products are bad, simply to remind you that they do have flaws. Based on your wording of “bootleg os’s” I can’t quite tell what your referring to. Windows is the only OS I’m aware of other than MacOS that has heavy advertising, but your phrasing seems to place it in a different category altogether. Although if you are looking for a new OS to try I highly recommend looking into the many Linux distributions available. I recommend Linux Mint to beginners, since it is generally the simplest to use.
I am not who you were talking to, but:
Window edge snapping is incredibly frustrating. Linux desktops and Microsoft Windows have had proper window snapping support for decades.
Completely agree, if you want a good solution though, don’t use any of those window managers that people always list for Mac like magnet, rectangle, whatever other junk is being sold. Use hammerspoon. Not only will you get better window management than even Linux (yes, I’m still yet to find a solution like it for Linux), you’ll also get tons of other things like easy jumping to apps, automation capabilities that would be very hard to do in Automator, etc. It’s definitely the best app on Mac by far. Oh and it’s open source and free.
The app uninstall process is inconsistent, with some apps remaining contained in the .app folder while others spill out all over the system
Isn’t this the fault of the app though? Apps that need to do stuff outside of the bounds of a regular app install shit elsewhere. I do hate that though. Not really sure it’s better on Linux though. If you install using apt or yum or whatever then sure, but plenty of other apps don’t install that way and they can leave junk all over the place too.
The recovery mode process for resetting an Intel-based Mac is incredibly tedious and time consuming
A lot of stuff on the Intel macs are terrible lol.
WatchOS has an inconsistent and difficult to navigate UI. The bubble menu is inconsistent and difficult to navigate, and the list view requires that you sort by alphabetical when a “recently used” sort would be significantly more efficient.
Agreed, but you can also just see recent apps by double tapping the button on the side. You don’t need to go to the app list at all.
IOS doesn’t allow sideloading apps.
Very annoying
TVOS is filled with ads for Apple’s premium services like AppleTV+
The only place I’ve ever seen ads on TVos is literally on the Apple TV app. Where else are you seeing them?
IOS home screen icons cannot have blank space and must instead tile to the top of the screen.
This is so incredibly annoying for multiple reasons. Any time you try to move icons or folders around it makes it impossible because everything on screen reflows as you’re trying to organize. It’s fucking insane.
Methods for going back to what was previously onscreen are inconsistent in IOS.
This is the second time in a week I’ve seen someone say this. I don’t know what everyone is talking about. Can you explain more?
IOS browsers are required to use mobile Safari’s web engine
This is also super annoying.
Answering your question on the inconsistent back button, there are simply too many of them. Sometimes it is the small text link with an arrow in the top left corner, sometimes it is a built in app back button, and sometimes the text version sticks around during navigation for no reason until it is clicked accidentally and throws back to the previous app.
I mean… I have several android tablets and have the exact same issue on those as well. Not sure how Android solves anything here. Except that you also get the hardware button that sometimes does absolutely nothing, or it goes back to a different location than the back button on screen.
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Apart from office pre installed, Linux has all these benefits for free. And even then, many distros have FOSS alternatives pre installed. Not great if you NEED MSOffice for work, but many suites, like OnlyOffice, are fully compatible with MSO formats.
I agree Linux is amazing and I use it daily but the thing that sets macos apart is the integration with the hardware. i wouldn’t for instance make a pc specifically to turn into a hackintosh id just boot manjaro but as a hardware software package macos and m1/2/pro/max are what makes it worth the money for me.
the integration with the hardware
In what way? You didn’t say.
as a hardware software package macos and m1/2/pro/max are what makes it worth the money for me.
Coukd you… be more specific?
Every windows computer/android phone I’ve ever used has crashed at least once a week if not daily because they’re trying to account for all hardware configurations possible my MacBook and iPhone have crashed maybe 4 times combined in their lifetimes. Having my app im using on my phone preloaded on my iPad and mac ready to go when I pick it up, my mac automatically sensing that I put my iPad next to it and automatically connecting the keyboard and trackpad to it. Being able to run iPhone apps on my mac without emulation. Projecting my iPad or iPhone display to my MacBook. I’m sure theres so much more im missing.
Yeah Windows is shit, that’s why I use Linux
Seems more like an apple user with superioty complex who never used other os to me
You sound poor.
You sound like your money is in Dad’s name.
A fool and his money are parted
Funny, because every alternative costs a lot more. Unless, of course, your time is worthless.
How does using other devices take more time?
A Mac gets out of your way, and you can actually concentrate on whatever you need to be doing instead of operating the computer. With Windows I feel I’m constantly fighting against the OS or dealing with the mediocre hardware. I’m a software engineer, I want to work on my own code, not deal with someone else’s. In the end it’s a tool to get a job done and using a mac simply means one less thing to worry about. And don’t underestimate how much even a little extra effort can cost. If I gain 1 hour a month not having to fight Windows that means I already made up the entire purchase price of my macbook pro.
it gets out of your way
try window snapping on it
Why would I need to? That’s one of those features that fixes the wrong problem.
This fight about whether owning an android device or an Apple device having any morality associated with it at all is stupid.
Change my mind
I also think it’s interesting how many people are trying to de-google their lives but still simp for android. One reason I like Apple is because they jealously guard my data and don’t sell it.
They guard your data? Quote from Apples Privacy Policy about the Apple-ID:
［…］we process the following categories of personal data as necessary for purposes of our legitimate interests or those of a third party, including information about:
Your Apple ID account, including information you use to sign in, as well as all the contact, payment, and security details, such as trusted phone numbers or security questions, that you use across Apple services Your devices, including your device’s name, serial number, and other hardware identifiers Your use of, and subscriptions to, various Apple services, such as iCloud, iTunes Store, App Store, Apple Music, and Apple One Payment details, including account numbers and expiration dates, billing and shipping addresses, and gift card redemption information These legitimate interests include:
- Providing you and others with better service and support
- Using your data to send you offers via email and push notifications that may be of interest to you
Simping is not the same as lacking a reasonable alternative
The fight is actually about the non-repairability of apple products, mostly laptops in Louis Rossmans’s case, and not related to android.
I think repairability is a discussion. But we can also talk about how android makers cut updates off sooner which dooms the hardware to be trashed quicker. Or the very real human cost of google killing projects related to android and selling data. Also, a lot of the Apple stuff has to do with cost to repair, not repairability. At the end of the day, Apple can and does repair and resell their stuff. They just charge more to do so. But a lot of their users pay up for it. Would be interesting to see the stats on where broken devices end up for each
I buy Fairphone!
I hope OLED becomes ethical enough one day for them to use it
Great choice, maybe I will have the money one day but at least I know what I would spend it on!
Louis has stated many times that shitting on consumers for buying Apple products is not productive.
not productive =/= not true
Mac is the only way work will let me use bash. You can pry my MacBook from my cold, dead, hands if it meant I have to go back to Windows/pwsh.
Does your work not allow Linux?
Nope 😂
The only product from Apple I’ve ever been impressed by was Airpods and now every other company has them. I bought mine on a huge sale because I don’t respect their bullshit prices and I do like them a lot, but I’m sure there are other brands I would like just as much now that they’ve been around for years.
That’s funny because I think the AirPods are quite terrible, but what is great about them is how they just work. I have beats because I wanted them for working out, but they never have issues connecting or switching between devices. But they don’t sound great and you can most definitely get higher quality audio from other brands. But you can’t beat how easy it is to use them.
For me it’s at least 90% the shape. I absolutely cannot stand the normal earbuds that have rubber you shove into your ear canal. It’s insanely uncomfortable to me, borderline painful even with the smallest tips I’ve found. So when I first saw the shape of the original Airpods it was like beams of light shined down and harps started playing. So there’s tons of alternatives now, but the ones I can choose from is still slim picking.
Yeah I hate the shape as well. The first apple earbuds (up until the most recent ones) are trash. I had to start wearing ear plugs to bed the past few years though so I’ve gotten way more used to stuff being in my ears. Still, earbuds suck.
I have no interest in changing an obviously uneducated opinion.
I’ll continue to enjoy my iPhone, my development MacBook Pro, my Windows gaming rig, my Linux server, and everything else that I choose to buy because I use all of it, happily every day.
