- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
(Cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/26559848/)
Some significant news for Telegram users!
See this article for some interesting backstory context on Pavel Durov and Telegram: https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-telegram-billionaire-and-his-dark-empire-a-f27cb79f-86ae-48de-bdbd-8df604d07cc8
Since the post article is in French, here’s an auto-translation:
Pavel Durov, the founder and CEO of the encrypted messaging service Telegram, was arrested around 8 p.m. on Saturday evening as he got off his private jet on the tarmac of Le Bourget airport. The 39-year-old Franco-Russian was accompanied by his bodyguard and a woman.
The arrest was carried out by the gendarmes of the GTA (Air Transport Gendarmerie). Registered in the RPF (wanted persons file), Pavel Durov came straight from Azerbaijan. He had over his head a French search warrant issued by the OFMIN of the National Directorate of the French Judicial Police, issued on the basis of a preliminary investigation.
Why was he under threat of a search warrant?
The Justice considers that the lack of moderation, cooperation with the police and the tools offered by Telegram (disposable number, cryptocurrencies, etc.) makes it complicit in drug trafficking, paedophile offences and fraud.
This search warrant ran if, and only if, Pavel Durov was on national territory. “He made a mistake tonight. We don’t know why… Was this flight just a step? In any case, he’s locked up!” a source close to the investigation told TF1/LCI. Since he knew he was persona non grata in France, Pavel Durov used to travel to the Emirates, the countries of the former USSR, South America… He travelled very little in Europe and avoided countries where Telegram is under surveillance.
And now?
Investigators from the ONAF (National Anti-Fraud Office attached to the Customs Directorate) notified him and placed him in police custody. He is expected to be presented to an investigating judge this Saturday evening before a possible indictment on Sunday for a multitude of offences: terrorism, drugs, complicity, fraud, money laundering, concealment, paedophile content…
“Pavel Durov will end up in pre-trial detention, that’s for sure,” comments an investigator to TF1/LCI. “On his platform, he allowed an incalculable number of misdemeanours and crimes to be committed for which he does nothing to moderate or cooperate,” said a source close to the case.
His pre-trial detention at the end of his indictment is indeed in no doubt. Pavel Durov, a billionaire, has substantial means to flee and his guarantees of representation will hardly convince the judges.
A net with international resonance
For the investigators, this international sweep has various objectives. First, it makes it possible to kick the anthill, impress and deter the perpetrators of crimes and offences who exchange, until now, freely on Telegram. Secondly, they aim to put pressure on European countries to step up joint work to make secure messaging on terrorist cases bend.
Indeed, Telegram is a hive of criminal content. At the moment, the platform is in the news with the illegal broadcasting of Ligue 1 matches. But on this encrypted messaging service, many accounts are used by organized crime. Beyond terrorism, the most dangerous pedophiles communicate on Telegram to exchange content. “It has become for years THE number 1 platform for organized crime,” comments an investigator.
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I don’t care much for the guy, but the fact he gets arrested for the service is a bad sign for private messaging in Europe.
Telegram is not private messaging.
To add to that. Russian government was demanding to be able to access messages or will ban Telegram in the country.
Did not hear anything beyond that, but Telegram continues to operate there.
Durov was travelling to France from Azerbaijan, where he had been meeting with Putin. There’s a theory that he basically surrendered to the French authorities so as to avoid retaliation for saying no to Putin too many times.
Where did you read about a meeting with Putin?
That’s wild. Remember where you read that?
Telegram has been banned in Russia, as far as I heared.
They do support e2ee in private chats
Yes, they do, but it’s very inconvenient. You can’t access such chats on desktop, no cloud syncing…
Hey at least it exists. And don’t that features make it more vulnerable? You need to store the encryption key in the cloud to make that work conveniently.
Signal doesn’t store your encryption key in the cloud and yet it supports e2ee messaging on multiple devices including desktop.
It requires a QR code to connect a new device which I didn’t consider convenient but I guess I was too strict on that one.
Do we know how it does that. Signal is praised for security, but a lot of things it does feel iffy and don’t make me trust it.
Signal is open source. Go read the source or a write up describing what it does.
You have to scan a qr code when installing an app on another device. I assume it’s a safe way to transmit the key without having it transmitted over the network.
You don’t have to store the encryption key in the cloud. Just the encrypted data. Signal does it this way.
Not activated by default. First strike. Cannot be activated in group chats. Second strike.
They use a custom encryption protocol and there’s been bugs that look like a backdoor.
I think it’s even more of a French thing than an EU thing. France is known for implementing censorship and stuff recently.
If you don’t care for the guy, you will nearly certainly lose privat messaging in Europe. Maybe, it’s even too late by now.
I think you and most people in this thread have been mislead by the article because of the closing remark.
Beyond terrorism, the most dangerous pedophiles communicate on Telegram to exchange content.
But it isn’t the private stuff he is being prosecuted for though AFAIK (although it might have been reported by “traitors” within those chats).
Unlike Signal, there are public chat groups and channels and I presume these are the ones which got him into trouble for propagating illegal activity.
From another article…
terrorism, narcotic supply, fraud, money laundering, receiving stolen goods and others… he allowed an incalculable number of offenses and crimes to be committed, which he did nothing to moderate
The platform has faced issues of misinformation and hate speech, especially antisemitic speech following October 7, 2023.
Telegram is good for citizen journalism (like what’s going on on the ground in Gaza and Ukraine), funny videos and memes, tech support, and casual conversation. Never privacy though.
The fact that governments want to shut down Telegram and arrest its founder shows that Telegram is pretty good for privacy.
And definitely much better than discord, contrary to what some say
Why not? Unlike whatsapp and signal, telegram private chats are not synchronized. So if you lost your phone and started a new one, the chats will not magically recover as in whatsapp. Because recover is unsecure. So the telegram is quite private.
or do you mean that encryption is not enabled by default in every chat? This is not an indicator of the messenger’s privacy.
Although Tox takes them all by the head, of course.
Russia banned Signal, but not Telegram, to make sure their citizens couldn’t plan any subversive activities against the state.
That’s all we needed to know for sure.
On the other hand, Durov was arrested in Europe, but the developers of the signal somehow does not.
Well, for some unknown reason, drug dealers still choose telegram. And they don’t just have an unfounded choice, but the profit depends on the messenger. Or say you that Durov was arrested for no reason?
P.S. in Russia now testing system for ban all messengers don’t hosted in Russia. They next after youtube. Telegram too. Information from first hands. =)
Signal doesn’t provide such open and easily found chat rooms.
It’s really much more a messenger (with group chats, but those you have to manually set up)So it’s not an “open” place like telegram and with that not as attractive for advertising illicit services or products.
besides that, Signal is the technically much more secure variant. No discussion about it.
So it’s not an “open” place like telegram and with that not as attractive for advertising illicit services or products.
As telegram. If you think that some drug dealers create public chats with sell drugs, so… you are wrong. All work with darknet. In telegram all of them use only private one-by-one crypto chats.
besides that, Signal is the technically much more secure variant. No discussion about it.
If you want protect yourself for random network administrator on your network line, of course. If you want protect from anyone (government for example), of course not. Not necessarily in a bad way. Privatecrypto chats one-by-one are equally protected for the Russian opposition and for drug dealers. This is freedom of information. And that’s why Durov was arrested. and not because he can hack chats something but don’t do that. I think in really because that he can’t hack chats and don’t approve hack / insert backdoors for anyone.
Maybe the difference is that the signal developers aren’t rich people flying around the EU on private jets? Maybe there’s no value in targeting the signal devs because they can’t legally be expected to moderate chats they literally can not access? Maybe it’s not worth backdooring because it’s open source?
Maybe the difference is that the signal developers aren’t rich people flying around the EU on private jets?
Telegram is not first durov project. Durov create VK. That is number one Russian facebook.
Maybe there’s no value in targeting the signal device because they can’t legally be expected to moderate cats they literally can not access?
Can them connect any number of users in chat? That mean that them have access in any chat. And them should follow all USA laws of course.
Maybe it’s not worth backdooring because it’s open source?
Telegram open source too. And have many open client apps. For example clients without AD API support. How much custom client apps have signal?
Not “somehow”. The authorities know Telegram can indeed backdoor their service, since they know it already is. They also know Signal cannot.
Thus, since Telegram can but refuses, he gets arrested.
an interesting assumption. how can private encrypted chats be hacked? On custom self compiled clients if you think that client have hole. I learned telegram protocol and don’t find any case. XD
Your .ru domain makes your comments in this discussion meritless.
custom self compiled clients
…
That’s why I started a domain in the ru zone. I can create domain anywhere else of course. If for you the nationality of the talker somehow affects the security of third-party software, then so be it. In the end, you can always not trust my words but familiarize yourself with the protocol.
Unlike whatsapp and signal, telegram private chats are not synchronized. So if you lost your phone and started a new one, the chats will not magically recover as in whatsapp.
That’s not true. Signal stores all messages on device.
or do you mean that encryption is not enabled by default in every chat? This is not an indicator of the messenger’s privacy.
Encryption on Telegram only works in 1 on 1 chats and is turned off by default meaning no one use it.
Encryption on Telegram only works in 1 on 1 chats and is turned off by default meaning no one use it.
It also only works in the mobile clients
That’s not true. Signal stores all messages on device.
Ok. Signal win one point.
Encryption on Telegram only works in 1 on 1 chats and is turned off by default meaning no one use it.
so, I use the telegram crypto chat to get a credit card pin from my bank. do you want to do this with signal? =)
in 1 on 1
and in turn, this means that the FSB log collector is not connected in the third place. =)
P.S. Do you understand the absurdity of the situation? telegram is not safe enough, but for some reason it is preferred by drug dealers. The lives of these people literally depend on the messenger. and the European Union was so unable to cope with this that it arrested the developer for complicity.
Definitely I would do so in Signal and never Telegram. What a question
OK. Thanks for answer.
Chats are only synchronized in Signal on activity linked devices. If you link a new device, your chat history will be completely blank at first.
and this does not prevent you from connecting the FBI log collector in the background. He will always be active.
I live in a country where, when crossing the border, they can request a phone for check chats, so I can roughly imagine how it works. Government has a much higher level of access. if the account is restored via SMS, this means that any FSB employee can connect your account to himself. if the conversation is not one-on-one, it means that the FSB log collector is somewhere in third place. This is the reality. I don’t understand why you think that your government collect data somehow another. may be from really bad people’s, but with same methods.
P.S. on telegram you have only one-by-one crypto chats. Protocol can’t connect anyone else.
Durov, as a citizen of France, recently sent them away when they asked for access, and then flew to them to test the strength of democracy. Imbecility and courage.
He just left Azerbaijan after meeting with Putin. I think he decided he’d be safer in French custody.
Source?
He wanted Uncle Vova to hide him from the bad guys, but he sent him away, there was no meeting. Pasha went to a foreign land.
I’d totally be on board with this if the moderation was aimed purely at such cases.
I’m afraid it will be used to oppress minorities and repress political opinions. Are we going to keep putting people in jail for their political opinions?
Are we going to keep putting people in jail for their political opinions?
Yes and it will not change because that’s how the vast majority thinks now.
And the majority thinks this way for what reason?
Because “Fake News” and missinformation has been framded as a danger for our societies for a long time.
I believe it’s a much more complex topic than that.
You know you are an authoritarian country when you arrest CEOs of messaging apps.
But Telegram does give data to law enforcements afaik. So even that is not enough nowadays? Even more sad to see it right after the election. EU citizens really have to reconsider their voting choices now.
This is a global push to destroy systems the government’s can’t control. He fact he was arrested says everything.
It’s own fault, you shouldn’t have taken the citizenship of this stinking pad… You should have taken the citizenship of the Emirates or India or Brazil, for example… Having French citizenship now is a disgrace.
Telegram is like CSAM and Nazi Central tbf. The place needs a purge, sucks that it’s capitalist states doing it, they will go after leftists too…
