Since taking office at the beginning of 2023, Defense Minister Boris Pistorius has been thinking about ways to make the Bundeswehr more attractive as a career.
No amount of money or benefits will ever make me a government’s boot licker. Sorry, not sorry
The number of people who think conscription is just getting ferried to a frontline with a sandwich and a thumbs up is baffling.
forced labour is slavery
maybe folks would sign up to protect their country if they thought it deserved to be protected, or was doing anything for them
Do you say the same about jury duty?
In my opinion, as long as the system for who is required to participate is fair and equitable, then it’s fair to consider it a civil duty.
the system for who is required to participate has practically never been fair and equitable, jury duty is not comparable to military service, and forced labour is slavery
civil jury duty is a really weird example to use anyway, since civil jury trials are practically non existent outside the USA
practically never
Soooo… sometimes.
Jury duty is also compulsory labour.
ok
forced labour is slavery
So you’re just doubling down on jury duty is slavery instead of considering a nuanced perspective?
Edit: autocorrect
I do not see compulsory military service as forced labour, not by a long shot.
In my country when a man turns 18, he has to choose either military service (6 months for rank and file, 9 months for specialists or 12 months for specialist drivers and NCO and officer trainees) or civil service (13 months). Third and very seldomly used option is “total denial”, which means you get to spend 6 months in an open jail.
I very reluctantly chose military service, hoping to get the shortest 6 month option. I ended up serving 12 months in the reserve officer training program, so I do have some experience on the matter.
The population of my country is so small that an army based on professional or voluntary troops is not a possibility. Conscription is the only viable choice.
The service was rarely fun, but it was very effective and extremely valuable. The personal growth I experienced during that year was immeasurable and one year of my life is a very small price to pay to this country that my grandparents’ generation paid a very heavy toll to protect. A country that offers equal rights, universal healthcare and free education for all citizens, amongst many other tax-paid services.
If you do not see your own country worth serving, I feel sad for you. I would gladly give my life to protect mine.
I do not see compulsory military service as forced labour, not by a long shot.
performing labour or 6 months of jail does sound completely unforced
A country that offers equal rights, universal healthcare and free education for all citizens, amongst many other tax-paid services.
i am so glad that you have all of that
If you do not see your own country worth serving, I feel sad for you
i said nothing about whether i see my own country as worth serving, but your pity is appreciated
I would gladly give my life to protect mine
and youll continue to have the option to do so regardless of whether your government continues to threaten its citizens into doing so
performing labour or 6 months of jail does sound completely unforced
Forced labour is very different to military training, IMO. Your choices and freedom are restricted - that cannot be denied - but your days are filled with different training excersizes, not labour as I understand it. And I’ve had my fair share of that too, but by my own choice.
i said nothing about whether i see my own country as worth serving, but your pity is appreciated
True. Your earlier statement was ambiguous concerning this. This is why I started the sentence with “if”.
and youll continue to have the option to do so regardless of whether your government continues to threaten its citizens into doing so
Also true. But if I had to defend my country, the most effective way to do it would be as a part of a trained and coordinated effort, not as some loner seeking a Hollywood - style “heroic sacrifice”.
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Could you elaborate on this line of thought?
I cannot tell if you are suggesting a professional standing army or something else entirely.
I believe it is a good idea, not only will it foster a closer feeling of unity and understanding between citizens, it will also be something all citizens have in common, and something you can talk about with anyone.
I am a bit sad that I never got to do it, I did muster, but failed the hearing test, at the time I was relieved, but now, I miss it sort of.
Being forced to risk your life for something you don’t believe in won’t create a feeling of unity.
So you don’t believe in fighting against invasion by a foregin power?
In what reality would Germany ever get invaded and not deserve it?
Why do you think they deserve it now?
They’re sending weapons to Saudi Arabia and Israel. They put sanctions on Afghanistan that are causing a famine. They’re funding Frontex, which kills migrants in the Mediterranean and those who make it get put into concentration camps. And that’s just some of it. The German government are war criminals and serial human rights abusers. Anyone who takes up arms to defend these people is complicit.
And don’t forget Germany never underwent denazification
That’s just dumb. War is good make friends ugh ugh bonk
Technically it is true, war has created plenty of friendships that would not have existed otherwise.
However, that is not what I wrote, I wrote that compulsory millitary service is in general a good idea and that one of benefits is unity and understanding between citizens.
I know, I know, I’m making fun of you
Why are you doing that?
Because you are finding a trivial benefit to something bad and pretending that’s normal. You can go be a scout, have a sports team, a million other things to have camaraderie. But no, you want the fucking military. In a time when everybody is jerking off to war and finding excuses to enact shit you want the army because friends.
Yes you are right on all those points, but the topic was mandatory military service, not scouting, joining a sports team or a million other things.
Is it strange that I focus on the topic of conversation and not list irrelevant topics?
No, not at all, it’s just that you support mandatory military service.
If you want to bring people together create a program to do such thing. Forcing them into a shooting at people and dropping bombs course is the worst thing you could possibly come up with.
